Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Let's make Minthara Great Again

Does she have a higher DEX now? Is that why they gave her leather armor maybe?

Doesn't matter. That armor looks okay, but it is not fitting for a Drow Cleric at 12 AC. Give the woman some plated armor at AC 18, or at least a 15 or 16 + Dex. Ugh! 12?!

Back to the drawing board, Larian. Come on. Why you messing with us?

What are you talking about??
You asked about ARMOR AC not hers. :-/

Its regular value for leather armor and its fitting her perfectly.

Right. Leather Armor AC is not fitting for her. It's weak, like she's a Rogue.

Minthara is a cleric. Clerics should, at very bare minimum, wear medium armor like Half Plate which is 15 + Dex, or if they want to go for stealth without disadvantage, they should give her, at least, a Breastplate which is 14 + Dex. Make it +1 at the very least, because she's a boss and so it is at least special in some regard so when you kill her you get some sort of cool armor.

OR, make it Light Armor but give it AC 15 + Dex so it's really cool armor and your rogues and warlocks can use it and get awesome AC. That would be cool. I could see her wearing a Leather Armor with specialized high AC that equals medium armor AC, but not Leather at 12 AC. That's super lame and virtually worthless.

Leather 12 AC is like "Yes! I killed a boss. Let's see what she has. What! AC12 Leather! Pshh! Lae'zel wears half plate and my MC can wear Scale +1 and Shadowheart can wear Scale +1 too, and that's WAY better, and I got that as soon as I got to the grove. Minthara is lame. Her equipment sucks and isn't hardly worth picking up."

Again, new look is great. Stats? Still lame.

Sounds like matter of perspective ...
I would say that give players +3 leather armor this early in the game would be lame.

Later today i shall check her stats when get to computer.

But quite honestly ...
If i had to decide between ridiculosly OP loot from this easy boss...
And some ridiculous buff that have no support in rules to make her compareable even tho she is wearing Leather only ...

I would choose the second.

If you would like her to drop so strong armor, the all goblin leaders would have to be together for a fight ... to make you earn it.

Cool Shadow Armor Leather with a decent enchantment seems fitting for what is essentially the curtain falling on the first major arch of the story.

I mean the analogy would be the coolest armor one could get at the same point in BG1. In Beregost with the bonus to hide in the shadows and move silently. It was expensive, but you could still pick it up and that felt like a real accomplishment. I believe that's what they're shooting for maybe here?

Even if not, I can imagine other ways to buff her up if needed. Lets not lose the cool looking armor we finally got though. Just boost it up a bit instead. I mean it does have the word Drow in the description right?

I respect the designer for knowing what leather armor actually looked like, with hardened leather in bands and plates, not like some tight and flexible form fitting leather jacket anachronism that we typically see for such armors hehe. I like the color scheme too. Compared to the patch 5 look it's like praise the Absolute!!!

Of the Goblin bosses Minthara is definitely the fiercest in presentation. I mean given that she leads the attack on the grove, which is the big fight with the highest stakes along either path. If not exactly the most challenging. I think they will likely play with her stats and such until she's a fitting menace. I still think she'd make a fun companion for the Evil lineup too.

She'd basically be the Viconia/Shar-Teel of BG3. The one who we pick up at the end of the first major arc, a bit further afield, before the game scales up in challenge for the second major section like it did in BG1 vs the Bandits in the Woods or the Basilisks zone etc. That'd be a nice touch. Also with a hit to our reputation for allowing such an obvious villain into our group. Her and Kagha would be my top picks, as being the most Evil characters we've actually seen so far. Certainly more Evil than any of the 5 Origins.

Well ok Lae'zel is maybe pretty Evil deep down, but otherwise the badguy gang is pretty tame. One can hope Minthara would be a nice fit, so we can have a cutthroat Cleric who Lae'zel actually respects, as a counterpoint to Shadowheart hehe.

Also we lose Wyll if we complete the Goblin path, so it feels like going that way should give us access to an alternative companion as a boon. Minthara is already at the celebration and clearly game to party. Basically an Edwin or Dynaheir type situation, but BG3. If Minthara goes down maybe we get Sazza instead? So there is someone to pick up the slack. I'd like a similar thing for a nature healer in the choice between Halsin or Kagha. Instead of doing the part lock thing if it was handled like that it would feel more sensible with opposing party members. Not like everyone all gone at once at the same time. Instead makes more sense with factions building incrementally and with consequences from the actual gameplay. We don't need mercs really if they just allow some of the NPCs we've seen and come to enjoy, to become our extra companion for the long haul. Have it develop naturally from the story beats and our campaign choices, rather than randomly shoehorned in, just so it makes more sense that we get one option rather than another.

OMG. You guys are crazy. Leather + 1 is what you're happy with for a boss in EA? Really? Again, I like the look, but there is literally no reward for beating her here when her armor is more lame than all the armor you can already get in EA.

It makes no sense to me. Cleric with Leather + 1 is just... It's just wrong. How is it even remotely acceptable? Plain studded leather is 12 AC. It's lame.

I'm not saying that they should give her like Plate +3 or something ridiculous. I'm just saying he armor should have a stat value that makes sense, like Scale +2, you know, slightly better than what the PC can acquire from the store? Or maybe she should have Breastplate +1 so her AC makes sense for a cleric, the armor doesn't hinder stealth, and it's at least something better than what you can get at the store.

They can keep the look, but why Leather? It doesn't even look like leather.

In BG2, Drow armor is way better than normal armor. So, when I acquired Drow armor for the first time in this game, I thought I was going to get something awesome. Leather + 1 is not awesome. My grandma could take down someone in this Drow Leather.

No. It's unacceptable stat-wise. No cleric, especially a Drow, would be caught dead in such lame armor. Clerics are supposed to be tanks. Therefore, Minthara should be a tank. She should be hard to kill, and her armor should be some sort of cool reward. Either Leather + 3 to be at least AC 14 + Dex or Scale + 2 or Breastplate + 2 or Plate + 1 or something at least slightly better than what you can get from the vendor.

Why do you NOT want Minthara to be truly great?

That's not what I said at all. I basically repeated your exact request to have the enchantment be upped to Leather +3 and went even further to suggest Studded Leather +3 with an added skill bonus just like the Armor in Baldur's Gate 1 and then you said I'm crazy? lol

Are you arguing just for the sake of being argumentative? I'm on your same forensics team dude, trying to support the position you just offered in the preceding post.

I am happy with the look and said that they could change the enchantment or her stats more easily without giving up the aesthetic appeal we just gained, then requested she be a made a companion as well.

Why can't we fixate on that part now instead?

If they change the look of her gear yet again and it ends up looking weaker than this aesthetically I'll be irritated. Her current look is pretty cool. That is actually what badass leather armor should look like. Historically leather armor was not pliant and flexible. It is not tanned to make it ultimately soft but rather to make it durable, then 'boiled' moulded and hardened with minerals and resins, and ideally reinforced further with metal ribbing which this suite appears to have.

Actual Leather armor was rigid. Hence the desire for a qualifier to stress that point further for people who might not know that real medieval Leather Armor looked a lot more like banded or plate armor than some form-fitting modern pleather catsuit of the sort we usually get in these games hehe. They did well there for the visual design. It actually does look like leather armor, just not the visually inaccurate sort we're used to seeing from less informed artists. The regular Leather Armor from the shop (or in the char menu if you choose a rogue) is what doesn't look like true leather armor. That stuff is a wildly anachronistic and would be pretty useless in combat for all but the most minimal protection against heat transference or minor abrasions, whereas this suite actually does look like true leather armor! So that's a plus at least. I think she looks killer compared to patch 5. I want her to come along for the ride now again!

I'd like to have a reason for Minthara to get excited when she gets her hands on some rad Drow plate in black a bit later, after she's joined my group. Then stick her Drow 'leather' +3 on my evil PC or someone else who can make better use of it at that point. There should be some room for her to progress after being picked up.

These boards are absolutely exhausting. We can't even agree with each other without catching an elbow from the lecturn? lol

https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Xyanyde > Best 1h Mace ...
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Amulet+of+Misty+Step > One of best Amulets ...
+ Absolutely best looking armor and shield so far ..

Indeed no reward at all.

Give her a Half-Plate. The whole fight is already trivially easy as it is. It doesn't feel like a mini-boss at all.

Do you mean take the above and just "call it" Half-Plate with Half-Plate stats? Cause I have no issue with that at all.

I will be so so disappointed though, if she looses her new Patch 6 Outfit look, and has it replaced with something boring like what Aradin appears to be wearing, just so we can call it breastplate +1 or whatever. Seriously, please don't take this visual away from me! lol

It took us 18 pages to get back to something I find palatable after suffering in Patch 5 for what felt like as many months. Please just don't change the look again. I'm not even nitpicking pauldrons on this one, cause I'm so thoroughly relieved that she at least looks Drow and somewhat menacing again. Don't take away what can be altered easily with a different labelling or enchantment or a stats change. Call it Half-Plate or Super Leather +3, whatever you need to make her AC work well. This thread was started to discuss her Aesthetics and Visual appearance because of what happened in Patch 5, not so much her stats or to debate whether she is tough enough in combat. Obviously I think she should be as hard as possible and a badass in combat. Just don't change the visual look again, push the numbers instead.

Let the player take her to the salon if they wish, but for the Absolute's sake - step back, away from the painting canvas now! She looks nearly perfect. Retain this visual design

Video spoiler

I would imagine Drow know how to make Medium and Heavy Armor as well for their Clerics and Fighters. I would at least expect to encounter more of them since we are in the Underdark.

Sorry Black_Elk. I misunderstood what you were saying. I thought you were okay with the AC 12.

I'm totally fine with the armor appearance, like you are. Just give it better stats. I don't care what they call it. I'm just saying AC 12 is utterly lame. And yes, the amulet, shield and mace aren't all that. They're okay, mind you. I have no issue with them, but the armor just doesn't fit from a stat perspective. Again, no cleric would be dressed in light armor unless that armor gave them some good bonuses like AC 15 + Dex + no disadvantage for stealth. AC 12 + Dex + no disadvantage for stealth is no better than a Rogue's lame Leather + 1. A ROGUE, which she is not.

In BG 2, Drow armor rocked. It was like the best armor in the game. Sun sensitive and lost a good chunk of AC when you left the Underdark, but even then it was not weak Leather. They gave you Plate. In the Underdark, it was like Plate + 4. I'm NOT suggesting Plate + 4, but something slightly better than the vendor sells. That's it.

Sorry too, I think I just had a pure panic attack thinking Larian might torture me again in patch 7 lol. Cause like if it can get as bad as orange ring mail and the pixie with silver eyes, my trust was shattered. Now I'm it's like wow, I'm so happy they listened to the strong strong reaction against Minthara being some lame peon with lame gear.

I think they should push her Dex through the roof and keep her strength right where it is, so she can wreck either way. With some black Full Plate or ass kicker light armor, that can be used for more flex. Just give her 15s in everything but intelligence, and keep that Wisdom high. I don't wan't another Viconia who can't carry her own armor, that's why I said Viconia/Shar-Teel.

This is BG3! She needs to come correct, Absolutely! hehe

But I am very very happy with the course correct on the visuals. It makes me feel sad for anyone who bought into the EA during the last few months, and only saw patch 5 Minthara, thinking she was just ridiculous. Way easier to juice the numbers at this point, let's close the door on her default looks for sure!

We can definitely talk now about what Full Plate Drow armor should look like though! And also how she should be a companion hehehe

I really do hope they consider making her a Non-Origin companion that can be recruited into the fold. She's the best we got right now for a Villain on the team in EA.

There has to be some internal rule at Larian to not let anyone have any good armor in early access. It must be a known thing. Like a memo that went out to everyone.

Probably hehe

The one line in the patch note reads at follows...

"Gave Minthara proper Drow armour - changed from ringmail to leather."

So it's possible they just subbed in whatever regular Drow leather armor is supposed to look like (the sort we'll be eventually looting on the regular), so that she wouldn't continue to look so awful in the interim?

Her initial stats were:

Strength: 15
Dexterity: 12
Constitution: 15
Intelligence: 12
Wisdom: 18
Charisma: 16

But how about something more like...?

Strength: 15
Dexterity: 16
Constitution: 15
Intelligence: 10
Wisdom: 18
Charisma: 15

As a companion that would be pretty impressive, she'd be able to hold her own for sure. As an opponent at least she'd be hammering harder, whatever her chosen equipment loadout. Then she'd have a lot of options, and some serious multiclassing potential on offer eventually, depending on which attributes the player chooses to boost for her. She could take a Class in basically anything other than Wizard, and still hold her own on the front line. Again more like a Shar-Teel. She could take a few levels in something else, and be a more flexible companion that way. Or just an ass kicking all around Tank Cleric with a truly Evil core spread lol.

That just feels like something a desirable Evil BG companion would have in their stats. The reward for being such a heartless villain in our Evil playthrough, is that we get an objectively stronger Cleric than Shadowheart along for the ride. A bloodthristy cleric with an inside track on the Absolute plot line, so she can serve as a narrative vehicle there. A cleric who Lae'zel doesn't hate with a passion.

People have asked for some reward along the Evil path, a true reward, and Minthara as such a strong companion with good Stats could be exactly such a reward!

A bit better than a PC could achieve with the point buy, but not so ridiculous that she overshadows them entirely. Just enough STR and DEX to be hard. Enough Con to be beefy. Very high in her Prime Attribute WIS at 18 so she is an ideal Cleric, and still pretty damn high in CHA to boot, matching her role as a Priestess of the Absolute.

Agreed ... dont buff her armor, buff her!

If we need a narrative justification to explain a stat spread which is higher than the PC can achieve via point buy, we can just say that it was the Absolute who granted her those extra Attribute bonuses with the crazy high Charisma etc.

Perhaps if she ever strayed from the path of the Chosen, she knows she'd take a hit on all her Attributes in divine retribution lol. Basically the Absolute granted her a +2 ability score increase to everything, and a +5 in CHA so she'd be persuasive enough to carry the gospel of the Absolute effectively across the Realms.

The narrative conceit is that she went from something like...

STR: 13
DEX: 14
CON: 13
INT: 8
WIS: 16
CHA: 10

Which is more like an achievable Stat spread, that the player might recognize from their own Character creation process. But she's got the Absolute's boost to that all around, so...

Strength: 15
Dexterity: 16
Constitution: 15
Intelligence: 10
Wisdom: 18
Charisma: 15

This explains how she become such a potentate. If she didn't keep the Absolute happy she'd get knocked off her hight perch down to a more normal Stat spread. But staying True, she's basically a murder machine!

I like that kind of idea. I think it works best.

Just give her a very high (18-20) dex, like drows have in general. Studded leather + 20 dex is the same as half plate + 14dex so it's not so bad. If you factor in the shield, she would have 19AC, or 18 if she has only 18-19 dex. And that is if nothing is magical.

Ugh! But why? Why are you SO against Minthara having APPROPRIATE armor for a CLERIC? And why boost her stats to something ridiculous, especially if she might be a companion? You can't do that. She'll be too OP.

For pity's sake, I'm not asking for her to have some ridiculous Plate + 4 armor that gives her AC 22 or something all by itself. I'm just asking that they make her not a weak piece of trash. Normal stats for whatever level your characters should be when you face her (so maybe Level 4) and slightly better armor than what you can have, like Half Plate + 1 or + 2, you know, an AC of 16 + Dex, so total AC of like 18, like Lae'zel, at least. With shield, AC of 20, again like Lae'zel. People! That's not too tough for Level 4 characters, and it's totally appropriate for a boss at this stage in the game.

Plus! It gives you better armor if you beat her. Not grossly awesome armor, mind you. Just something better than trash Leather + 1