Originally Posted by GM4Him
Originally Posted by Avallonkao
Look at the meme thread, check the BG3meme videos. You'll notice that most of the videos are about Astarion, because that's what he is, a meme.

So was Trump, but that didn't change anything. He was still the previous American president. Being a meme just means you've gotten people's attention. That's all.

What is the point of this entire thread? Are you all hoping they'll decide to axe Astarion?... change him?... or is this just a complaining thread meant to gripe about how you don't like Astarion?

He very much fits D&D FR lore. I see nothing wrong with his character. He's not fitting the vamp spawn perfectly, but that gives him a bit of unique qualities. He's not just a Twilight vamp or a Anne Rice vamp. He's his own unique self. He should be. He's been set free in an unconventional way.

And if the complaint is he isn't original enough, I ask you, "What is? What exactly would make him acceptable to you?"
If you want to argue that Astarion is Trump-like then I'm not going to contradict you. Quite a lot of similarities, to be honest.

Does he fit FR lore? That's a good question. You've quoted parts of a fan wiki page, but I don't feel you really put that description into perspective before deciding that he's a good fit. I consulted the same page and I can't say that I see any fit at all. Vampire spawn are aggressive, not whiny little "please let me be your poodle" type things. They are arrogant and certain of their own superiority, not puffy snobs.

Sure, if you kick Astarion enough, he'll start blabbering about how he is strong and whatnot, but he'll hardly come off as a strong being, will he? It feels a lot more like some goblin trying to convince himself that he's a bugbear than an actually strong creature explaining to a weakling why the weakling should want to hang out with the strong creature. And isn't that what Astarion should see all others as? Weakling lunchboxes? He even has this line about how the protagonist needs him to be strong. The protagonist needs him? A vampire spawn is arguing that someone else needs him as their minion? How does that work?

The point of this thread? I'm guessing Teclis wanted to rant about Astarion being a bit flamboyant in his behavior, but currently I guess we're all just letting off some steam regarding how he rubs people the wrong way because of what a pathetic character he ultimately is.

What do we hope to accomplish? Aside from just ranting a bit over bad writing, I guess maybe that Larian makes him more coherent and less Twilighty? Make him a bit less over-emotional and more dark? Make him feel a bit more predatorious? Chance of that happening just because we rant a bit is probably roughly 0.001% or so, at a guess. That's infinitely more than the chance of Larian making him less of a worthless douchenozzle if we don't complain about him, isn't it?

Lastly, let's consult our trusty 5E monster manual. When reading that, do you really feel like it totally matches the Astarion we're seeing?


VAMPIRES
Awakened to an endless night, vampires hunger for the life they have lost and sate that hunger by drinking the blood of the living. Vampires abhor sunlight, for its touch burns them. They never cast shadows or reflections, and any vampire wishing to move unnoticed among the living keeps to the darkness and far from reflective surfaces.

Dark Desires. Whether or not a vampire retains any memories from its former life, its emotional attachments wither as once-pure feelings become twisted by undeath. Love turns into hungry obsession, while friendship becomes bitter jealousy. In place of emotion, vampires pursue physical symbols of what they crave, so that a vampire seeking love might fixate on a young beauty. A child might become an object of fascination for a vampire obsessed with youth and potential. Others surround themselves with art, books, or sinister items such as torture devices or trophies from creatures they have killed.

Born from Death. Most of a vampire's victims become vampire spawn-ravenous creatures with a vampire's hunger for blood, but under the control of the vampire that created them. If a true vampire allows a spawn to draw blood from its own body, the spawn transforms into a true vampire no longer under its master's control. Few vampires are willing to relinquish their control in this manner. Vampire spawn become free-willed when their creator dies.

Chained to the Grave. Every vampire remains bound to its coffin, crypt, or grave site, where it must rest by day. If a vampire didn't receive a formal burial, it must lie beneath a foot of earth at the place of its transition to undeath. A vampire can move its place of burial by transporting its coffin or a significant amount of grave dirt to another location. Some vampires set up multiple resting places this way.

Undead Nature. Neither a vampire nor a vampire spawn requires air.

Player Characters as vampires
The game statistics of a player character transformed into a vampire spawn and then a vampire don't change, except that the character's Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores become 18 if they aren't higher. In addition, the character gains the vampire's damage resistances, darkvision, traits, and actions. Attack and damage rolls for the vampire's attacks are based on Strength. The save DC for Charm is 8 + the vampire's proficiency bonus + the vampire's Charisma modifier. The character's alignment becomes lawful evi l, and the DM might take control of the character until the vampirism is reversed with a wish spell or the character is kil led and brought back to life.

Vampire spawn image:
[Linked Image from static.wikia.nocookie.net]

Vampire spawn stat box:
[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

Last edited by ArvGuy; 30/08/21 09:55 PM. Reason: Fixed images