I'm used to the Pathfinder craziness, but I can see how the Pathfinder Class system can be particularly daunting for newcomers because it forces A LOT of choices immediately into the moment of character creation. You're basically asked to specialize before you even had a chance to play and get to know the game. From a meta standpoint too - knowing the game can be 50-100+ hours adds on to that analysis by paralysis.

A part of this is a bit of a poor user experience design by Owlcat in the character creator - a lot of the classes are super easy to understand if you realized that they are actually Hybrid Classes (named per PnP) of the Core Classes - i.e. Skald = Bard + Barbarian, Bloodrager = Sorcerer + Barbarian, Shaman = Oracle + Witch, etc. Instead you're given a massive list of class names, a lot of which aren't really descriptive - i.e. what's the difference between Witch / Oracle/ Shaman in just the name? The fluff text they give each class is also a bit too flowery and not focused enough on practical facts.

The Archetype system is also particularly tough on newer players because core abilities can actually be removed if you choose particular Archetypes (and it's not universal). Take the Divine Hunter (Paladin) for example. Sounds great for Paladin archers - bonus feats and all, but if you don't read ahead, you might miss that you lose out on arguably the most powerful Paladin ability in the game (Mark of Justice).

All of this, combined with the understanding that 150+ classes can't possibly be all balanced (and rarely do people want to pick a weak class/archetype to start), probably makes it hard for newer players to even get out of character creation.


This is something D&D 5E have fixed in multiple regards, despite all the issues I have with its simplicity. For many classes (outside of a few thematic ones) the "subclass choice" is moved a few levels back (level 2, level 3), so you have had a chance to at least playtest a bit. Also by making sure that Subclasses only ADD, never subtract, you're less worried about picking the "wrong class". Lastly - all subclasses of the same class in 5e get their features at the same level - so it's much easier to compare and contrast.


With that said, I'm having a blast with WoTR and I think you guys should definitely try it out. If character creation is bothering you, honestly just ignore the Archetype and play a core class you're familiar with from BG3 (which all exist in its 3.75 PF version).

Last edited by Topgoon; 06/09/21 07:05 PM.