If you help Sazza return to Minthara, she explains that the whole reason the goblins attacked the grove when you first come to it was because Aradin and his crew, called by the goblins "The Looters" tried to sneak into the temple and down into the Underdark. They were caught attempting to break in and chased out of the goblin camp. Halsin was captured as they were fleeing. Minthara then refers to them constantly as "My Prey". She asks Sazza if they at least managed to find and kill her prey. At first, I thought maybe she was talking about YOU, the MC, but no. She only sent the goblin raiding party out there to kill the Looters. That was her prey, if you pay close enough attention to the convo. Never once does she mention that her prey is a True Soul or someone from the crashed ship, and she never shows any other concern or care about the grove other than to slaughter it because of The Looters. But then... oddly enough... she is BENT on destroying the grove when provided the opportunity, as if she no longer cares about The Looters at all and her main objective in the area is to kill everyone in the grove. So what exactly is Minthara's main objective? Is it to kill Aradin and his crew? Is it to find the True Souls who escaped the nautiloid? Is it to kill everyone in the grove? None of this is clear.
I allways thought that she is talking about some specific members of Tiefling party (specificly Zevlor and maybe someone in his close comand), after all ... Sazza is not part of attack on Aradin, she is allready in cage when that happened ... so it dont quite make sence to think that she was send after them.
Also Zevlor tells us that There was several attacks on the grove lately ... and druids claim its Tieflings fault ... another reason is that Zevlor is so devoted to "never leave the Grove until Goblins are dealt with" so he is willing to attack you even if you outnumber his in his cave 2:1, kinda extreme since he only claims that he is "affraid of random attack" if you ask me. O_o I believe he knew that Goblins were specificaly after them.
Also there is that dead Drow in Halsin's secret room ... if you read his note, Minthara herself send him to observe, litteraly "track the druid" and "do not engage" ... and if you cast speak with death on him, he reveals you that he was scouting around and found the grove.
If you connect theese dots, it kinda fits me together that Tieflings tryed to get into Selune temple (seeking for shelter, or suplies ... or simply valuables on their way to Baldur's Gate) were kinda surprised by goblin army, and then run for their lives, just like Aradin did ...
Then they have found Emerald Grove ... therefore Goblins loose their track, but never stopped searching for them ... and since that moment, from time to time some (un)lucky scout gets too close to Grove gate and have to be dealt with.
I highly doubt he would have let some group of goblins to set up shop there and just increase in size without doing something about it.
Why? He said it himself ... Chaos is welcome, in doses; it helps keep balance. But this is too much - this is
unnatural.
I believe he didnt mind goblins, as long as they keep things natural ... but once the Absolute moved in, things changed quickly.
There are also other indications that the goblins just moved in recently. Listen to Minthara talk to her minions before actually triggering her dialogue scene. She is receiving reports from one of the goblins about the status of things in Bogrot. Seems they just set up shop there recently and something dark and mysterious is happening. They see things moving about in the night, implying Eliette, the Phase Spider Matriarch and her minions. Also, there is mention that there were no problems until recently. Then, suddenly, goblins in the temple and gnolls on the highway.
Im standing here for 20 minutes now, and the only thing she is talking about is prisoner, number of raiders, sometimes guard came to anounce visitors, sometimes Rozzak is complaining about that they wait instead of attack, and finaly she is talking about expanding their camp to Blighted Willage ... i dunno what is Borgot, but i believe that is what you mean?
If so ... that only means she recetnly get to Willage, not even a word about temple itself.
I don't think the Magubiyet loyalist goblin is an indication that they were set up in the temple for a long time. It just shows that the goblins followed Maglubiyet until the Absolute showed up. The goblin loyalist was a part of the tribe, and he refused to fall in line. Therefore, they locked him up. I took it as he was trying to lead a rebellion and turn the other goblins in his tribe against the Absolute. That's why he was there.
Exactly ...
And if they would just moved in recently, it would mean that they drag him with them for some reason ...
It seem much more probable to me that they were here just before they were converted to the Absolute, and (exactly as you said) "The goblin loyalist was a part of the tribe, and he refused to fall in line. Therefore, they locked him up."
Now, when basic hints are done ... lets see for Druid Grove:
Aradin have obviously litteraly no idea about what is goin on around here, he specificly tells us that when he claims that he "was expecting easy coin and not army of bloody goblins"
Exactly. Indicating the goblins weren't supposed to be there and haven't been there that long. It was a big surprise. The wizard in Baldur's Gate knew nothing about goblins in the area, and more importantly, if they had been there for a long time, wouldn't Halsin have at least known about it? Does the man never pick up on anything going on in his territory that he wouldn't warn Aradin that the place is crawling with gobbos?
Or he simply didnt expect "whole army" exactly as he said.
Wich on the oposite indicating that goblins are nothing new in this place, but they allways was just pest ... and hardly anything more.
Wizard in Baldurs gate have no reason to care about them, he is too far and too protected to bother with some goblin tribe.
Adventurers take the risks, and if something fails ... he simply hire another group. :P
Why Halsin didnt warn them is different question ... we dont know, maybe he underestimated them, maybe Aradin refused to listen, maybe Halsin didnt want to compromise his possibly only chance to get into the Underdark. That all is possible equaly.
Yes, the dead were his companions just outside Blighted Village, but that wasn't where the initial fight occurred.
I shall skip things i questioned earlier and keep only new info ...
Do you have litteraly anything that supports this theory?
Bcs they way i see it:
- Sazza is allready captured when Aradin and his group arives to Grove ... therefore, logicaly, she could not even know about whatever they did or where ... unless they would loot in the Temple, then return to grove, use Tieflings help to kill Goblins that was chasing them, then they capture Sazza, then they talk to Halsin, AND THEN they return to the Temple again ... BUT In this case Aradin would know about the army.
So the only logical explanation is that Aradin is not the "looter" she is talking about.
Therefore, since we do not find any dead adventurer, nor even any splat of blood ... in our way to Goblin camp ... i dare to say that my theory about them being ambushed in Blighted Willage is more probable.
There is one corpse of dead adventurer tho, inside the goblin camp ... the one kids are kicking.
Question is if they (goblins, not those kids) drag him there for some reason (i would bet eating) and then give his body to kids to have some fun ... or if he scouted ahead and was killed right where his body lay. O_o
Or, just to have all possibilities sorted here ... you were right and Aradin and his group did actualy somehow get so far ... then they start running out, and somehow managed to run without any serious injury through whole goblin party (since there is no other way than the bridge), main gate (with another guards), blighted willage (with yet another patrol, two of them actualy, one on roofs and one by windmill), and then half of their group was butchered by Willage Gate ... yet rest of the Goblin Army they runned around through this whole time decided to stop chasing them, and rather return to their own business ... wich would make sence to those goblins that are celebrating, but hardly to others.
But let's just say, for a moment, that you're right and that they were attacked outside Blighted Village. Even MORE so, Aradin and his crew would have trotted for about 2 minutes to Blighted Village, gotten attacked, and they would have hoofed it back to the grove. Hardly any time would have taken place from the time Halsin left to the time they returned to the grove. However, Kagha has already firmly established herself as First Druid? That makes no sense at all. The story seems to imply that Halsin and Aradin and his crew have been gone for some time and that everyone has been expecting them to return but they haven't. What on God's Green Earth took them so freaking long? The goblin camp is literally a 10 minute jog from the grove entrance.
You dont scale the map again. :-/
Average "fast walking" is acording to Wikipedia 2,5m/s ... it took me 35 seconds to get from Emerald Grove to Blighted Willage gate ... that would mean that Blighted Vilage is less than 100m (87,5) from the Grove ...
Look at this picture:
![[Linked Image from gamespot.com]](https://www.gamespot.com/a/uploads/scale_super/1585/15855271/3743583-bg3map.png)
Does it really seem to you that Grove and Willage are 100m from each other? O_o
And before you answer, notice that on left side is Baldur's Gate ... and remember that Tieflings are talking about how long it would take to get there (10 days if i remember corectly) ...
Now there may be some confusion around the fact that part of the way is hidden behind that "zoomed city" ...
But if you follow the route as far as you can, you should be able to determine something simmilar to this:
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/15GAqjq.png)
Meaning ...
Day 1: Reaching Blighted Willage
Day 2: Reaching Waukeen's Rest
Day 3: Reaching top of mountains
Day 4: etc. You get the idea
I give them 4 days to reach the Baldur's Gate through the part we do not see ... note that if i was wrong and city gates was exactly behind the edge of zoomed part (wich dont add up with rest of the landscape, but even IF) ... that would mean that i was wrong, and the segments i marked as potential daywalk would need to be split in half.
Meaning ...
Day 1: Wilderness
Day 2: Reaching Blighted Willage
Day 3: Wilderness
Day 4: Reaching Waukeen's Rest
etc.
Anyway, the point is that Blighted Willage cannot in any circumstances 100m far from the Druid's Grove ...
Wich such measures it would not be matter of 10 days to get in Baldur's Gate, but matter of 350 seconds ... since i used Ctrl+V to those lines, i didnt draw them ... first one of them was from Grove, to Blighted Willage ... and that walk i measured on stopwatch.
I shall skip rest of this part your post, since i concider matter of distances prooved wrong enough.
The last note i have on this matter is repeating what was told before:
IF Larian decided to cut whole map to pieces, and let us travel between those pieces instead of just melting it all together ... it would make much more sence from this (and only this) perspective.
Simmilar to what did we have in Dragon Age: Origins ... just small arenas for fights, or interactions ... and dots moving over map as simulation of our travels.
I know some people would appreciate that, but honestly i like it as it is now. :-/
I do seem to recall that there was a dialogue where she called it a holy crusade. Interesting. I haven't triggered that one in awhile. Still, then that just proves my point again. If you choose one path, she is going to destroy the grove because she is convinced they are housing her prey. The next path, she's saying it's a holy crusade to wipe out the heretics. But you know? I don't recall her ever mentioning she was after the weapon.
She do not mention the weapon herself ... you get that from your mind connection, its information provied by Narrator (just checked).
Im not exactly sure what do you mean with one path, or next path ... those are her reasons, they dont exist separately, nor they excluding each other, just bcs she dont give you full list of them.
And since you brought up the weapon, let's talk about that discrepancy. Sazza says the goblins were after the Looters. Aradin had busted in and that's who they were chasing. And yet, Findal says they were after the weapon. So which is it? Were they after Aradin and his crew or the weapon? When you talk to the goblin boss of that area, he berates Sazza and her team for screwing up the attack on the grove, and it's all about chasing the adventurers. Never once does he ask whether they found the weapon or anything. So why does Findal say they said they were after the weapon? Why would they tell Findal about the weapon? Why would they think the druids had the weapon? It was on the nautiloid, right? Even if the Absolute told Minthara or Gut that the heroes had the weapon, Minthara wouldn't have told her raiding crew about it before they chased after Aradin. So... makes no sense.
Well ... to answer this i believe we have to keep in mind that this game clearly do have some order that Larian expect players to keep ... even tho concidering whole map can easily confuse players, but things can seem like they are all happening at once.
My personal gues is that Long Rest is that would give sence to this events ...
Larian obviously wanted us to Long Rest inside the grove, after all we do have some battle behind us and this is first certainly safe spot ... it would make totally sence from story perspective.
Therefore the goblins that were chasing Aradin was one group ...
And if we were expected to long rest after that fight ... the another group we meet in secret passage would arive there day after.
That is also why nobody from the attacking goblins were talking about *the Weapon* they didnt even know about it, they were just chasing Aradin, nothing else.
Now you asked why would they tell Findal about the Weapon ...
They didt *tell him* they were *interrogating him* about it.
Why would they think Druids have it?
That seem pretty clear to me, around Nautiloid we can find some dead goblins ... so they were sniffing in wreckage too.
But if that party dont find anything, logical outcome is that someone survived the crash and take it ... or someone find it first.
Next logical stepp is start to look for survivors > that is what siblings do.
And start searching in nearby settlements ... and there is only one settlement nearby, Druid's Grove ... wich Minthara allready wants to destroy anyway, so its win win for her.
Minthara was just thorough, i would not search for anything deeper.
Look, the way I figure it, here is how the events went down:
1. Gnolls on the road attacking people. Halsin investigates.
2. Tieflings on the road attacked by gnolls.
3. Halsin shows up and saves them and leads them to the grove.
4. Goblins and drow show up in the temple.
5. Halsin and Nettie investigate and get attacked by a drow and kill him and take him back and learn about the True Soul parasite.
6. Aradin and his crew show up asking about the Nightsong and the Underdark. They are going to investigate.
7. Halsin agrees to go with them to investigate the parasite.
8. Halsin, Aradin and company arrive at the Goblin Camp and find it overrun by goblins. Not wanting to give up on their quest, they seek a way inside. This takes time, and they are constantly hiding from goblins and drow as they work their way around looking for some way to get in.
9. The nautiloid shows up. Now goblins are on full alert and crawling everywhere. Aradin and his crew can't even move now. They're stuck in hiding because goblins are searching all around for survivors from the crash. (Yes, I think it has to do with the box and YOU, the MC. Yes, you and your party, I think, are quite special. Minthara even says, at one point, that you are one of the Absolute's favorites. So, she has been looking for you.)
10. Raiding party runs into Aradin, Halsin and company, finding them in their hiding place.
11. Halsin is captured and many of Aradin's crew are killed as they try to flee back to the grove. Most die just outside Moonhaven.
12. Aradin and the survivors race back to the grove.
This is interesting list ... alow me to present mine:
1. Goblins live in the temple, minding its own business ... as much as Goblins can so.
2. True Souls and the cult of the Absolute come in ... tribe is converted, reformation to millitary force begins.
3. Tieflings on the road are attacked by gnolls ... some manage to run, some was eaten by Gnolls, that did pay more attention to their food than to chasing the rest.
4. Tieflings arived to Blighted Willage (there are some Tieflings corpses, both in and out) probably to seek shelter.
(
I admit this may seem a little odd, since all they would need to do is continue West to reach Waukeen's Rest and avoid all this shit ... but concidering one of them told us that Nautiloid have falled "West from here" while it was actualy South ... maybe they were thinking they do travel to Waukeen's rest. Or to take it a little more seriously, they werent exactly pay atention where they run.).
5. Few Tieflings went to Selune Temple, possibly either seeking valuables (note it could easily be those kids), or scouting ahead (not kids probably
) ... they probably have seen some Goblins here and there, but most of them was inside ... they keep exploring until someone discovers them ... then they run.
6. Tieflings arives to Emerald Grove ... Halsin welcomed them inside ... they probably had some Goblins at their tails, so there was battle, some Goblins obviously survived and report that Looters escaped and some Druid helped them.
7. Minthara sends Drow scout to find and follow "Druid" (not sure wich one, but probably either Nettie, or Halsin) ... he screw up, and is killed ... Halsin finds out about the parasite ... his body was taken for futher examination.
>> This is status quo that was set ...> Minthara from time to time sends small group of scouts to find Druid Grove, or so they find a better way inside (since as she tells you "she do not intend to lead suicidal attack") ... they were mostly slaughtered, Sazza was captured either back in point 6 or anytime between then and now ...
> Halsin scouted around either by himself or with help of other animals, but didnt get much info sice Goblins were attacking everything that gets close enough so they can shoot at it.
> Tieflings are getting comfortable in their new home ... daring more and more with every other day.
*some unspecified time later*8. Aradin arived to Grove ... he was talking about Nightsong and the Underdark, he and Halsin is talking about the fact that there is some entrance to Underdark in Selune temple ... Halsin agree (or maybe even asks) to join them ...
9. Halsin either stated that Kagha will lead the Grove in his absence ... or she simply uses the chance and stands as most supported person, since majority between Druids are sick of Tieflings allready ... anyway the coup started.
>> Aproximately sometime at this time Goblins raided Waukeen's Rest ... and Gnolls attacked Toll House ...
10. Halsin and Aradin arived close enough to Selune temple to observe it from the distance (its even possible that they have seen Goblin army marching Norht, so they decided tht this will be good time to go) ... one Adventurer, and possibly Halsin decided to scout ahead ...
Nautiloid showed up ... Nautiloid exploded ... Halsin and Scout was exposed ... Halsin was captured, since Goblins expected him to be just animal ... Scout was killed ... Aradin and rest of his group start running ...
11. Goblins returned from sucesfull raid.
12. Aradin and his group was discovered (possibly short resting) outside the Blighted Willage by goblins that was send out after Nautiloid exploded ... those of them who survived start running again.
... at same time Minthara sends out scouting parties, searching for survivors.
13. We arive to the Grove, save Aradin's Ass ...
14. Scouting parties arives.
>> Aproximately sometime at this time Gith destroyed passage by Toll house (my personal gues it was Gith, there is nothing indicating it in game ... but it would make sence, if they were planing to search whole area around Nautiloid crash for survivors, to cut out all exits ... so either them, or those Zarielsworn Paladins destroyed the most obvious escape route for Karlach)
I must say somet things gets to a little different perspective, when i was creating this timeline.
For example ... i have littealy no idea where those goblins that was dead by Nautiloid came from. O_O The only possible explanation i have is that they were send to find the Grove, and while they were searching that ... Nautiloid showed up and they decided to explore crashside instead.
As for the paper in Blighted Village, you missed my point. The point is that people believe that the village was resettled, but the evidence indicates that it wasn't. It's been a ghost town for over a hundred years.
This is pure language block ...
The word Google Translator offered me as translation for "resettled" is in my language used for moving every citizen from one place to another, where they start new settlement ... leaving the original place behind.
So it maked sence to me that it was all abandoned ruins.
Now when you say it this way, i get the feeling that word was used in exactly oposite meaning, as if other people came in and started to live in the same willage again.
In such case i dont have much to say, except maybe that 100years is a long time.
No, one of the surviving fishermen explicitly tells us that they arrived on the river. O_o
What more do you need?
Do you realize that this world is not ending with borders of our gampleay map?
There is obviously another settlement somewhere up the stream, and that is where they are from ...
Mystery solved.
Missed my point and what I said entirely. The point is, there is no village in the area. None. No one mentions one. Nobody says, "There are villages across the river," or "There's a fishing village west of year," or anything. You just find all these random fishermen on the beach, dead. They were slaughtered, clearly, by the intellect devourers. Your MC even says so. There's at least a dozen of them or more besides the three that are alive. No one ever explains who those people were or where they came from. They were just there on the beach when the nautiloid crashed. Their boats were smashed and the intellect devourers killed them.
Where did they come from?
As you said:
Their boats were smashed and the intellect devourers killed them.Focus on "Their boats" ... logicaly, they come by the river.
You don't even ask anyone; not even the three surviving fishermen. You don't say, "Hey! Where are you from and where did all these fishermen come from? Is there a village nearby? I'd really like to get my bearings. Where are we?
You can ask both questions if they are dead ...
They came from fisher willage up the river ... and you are in middle of nowhere.
