Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous vs BG3

It is not about the bugs themselves, because they will always be there, but about their number and the fact that the game has many critical bugs.

The cost to enter early access for WotR was $114 through out the early access process. So no, it was not an exaggeration as that was the only way to get into it. I can already tell you were not part of the early access process from your responce. That or you refuse to accept the cost to get into BG3 early access was cheaper than WotR.

I will say, despite some of my earlier negativity, I’ve decided to restart the game as a half-orc bloodrager, and its been a lot more enjoyable. Don’t have to worry about my horse randomly getting stuck in doors, lol. I still think there are too many encounters though. I also agree with the praise for Woljiff’s voice actor, he understood the assignment.


I thought her rhetoric paralleled a lot of Dawkins talking points. Just applied to a world where polytheism is the norm and the reality. With a dash a Diogenes-esque cynicism. As someone with quite a bit of interest in theology and philosophy, it’s a shame Ember’s idiosyncrasies annoy me so much. Might just grit my teeth and soldier through, idk. Appreciate the responses though.

I have backed WotR on kickstarter and as such had the opportunity to upgrade to beta access. It was over a 100$ at that time, which was over the budget for me, so I didn't. Beta access cost more than the game price. BG3 EA was the price of the normal game edition by comparison (I remember it was the same price as the Cyberpunk game).

I only had to reply cause I'm intrigued by this last dash! I haven't played with her, but I can get into a little Pyrrho style empiricism in my D&D, or rolling with a Crates or Hipparchia type in the party. Those are my dogs right there! lol Though somehow I doubt it's done up in the ways I'd wish. Let us know how it goes though. I might launch again and chase my tail for a few, if it ends up decent hehe

What was the reasoning behind the cost? 100 dollars definitely seems ridiculous for a beta, especially for someone who supported their Kickstarter. You’d think they’d give backers a discount.

From what I understood it was an upgrade to the more expensive game edition, because backing the game gave you access only to the basic edition and that didn't come with beta access. edit: Though I might remember it wrong, it could be that the preorder edition that came with beta access was more expensive, so that it wouldn't cost less than kickstarter. Before that there was alpha access, which I didn't participate in.

Ah but see, that is not what he said. Furthermore, paying to crowd-fund a game is fundamentally different from paying retail for a game. Every single game I have crowd-funded through KS or Fig I have *contributed* (which is what you are doing when you crowd-fund something) far more than what I would have paid if I'd waited to buy the game retail. It is perfectly normal for a KS campaign to try and generate more funds by putting beta access at a higher funding tier level, to use people wanting to get into the beta as leverage to try and get more funding for the game. That is a perfectly normal and logical thing to do.

I clicked on the title because it intrigued me. But damn, did I cringe hard at the "woke" argumentation...

Funniest thing is, one of the first couple of characters you're introduced to in Pathfinder WOTR are a gay married couple, whom are an integral part of the story. Woopsie!

Yeah,it's kinda interesting. I think the writers are into:

a) existentialism and pessimism. We have different responses the meaningless of life. Daerun knows the world is going to end soon so he doesn't take anything seriously and endlessly indulges his hedonistic desires. Ember knows there's not point to it all and life is meaningless so she makes the most of what she is given. They're interesting polar opposites on the same spectrum.

b) vore and slasher horror. Camilla. Shudder.

Afaik you could also get into beta through a preorder from owlcat, which was around 100$ as well. So the retail pricing for beta access was similar to KS. Unless you mean some other option?

I see what you mean.

Wenduag as well. I wish fetish and kink wasn’t always portrayed on the evil end of the spectrum. I know a dude into vore and he’s one of the nicest guys around.

The only other character that would participate in anaiada is probably Daeron. Which is quite funny to think about since hedonism is otherwise almost diametrically opposed to cynicism. Heh. Feeds in well to Rabbit’s point about the parallels between Ember and Daeron.


I’m willing to cut Owlcat slack given they’re a smaller studio, but people have a right to voice their frustrations regardless. Especially if they’re spending a lot of money on the game.

Currently playing WotR at the moment (Act 4), I find it hard to compare it to BG3 since we're comparing a full game to a mere Act I prologue.

So far I'd say the main distinction between the games (to me) would be about the dialog/gameplay responsiveness: I have a lot of expectations on BG3 dialogs to adapt depending of your choice. I like the idea to experience the game like a an "interactive RPG book" (like Choice of Games interactive stories). WotR is intense and kinda maximize all things in a classical way, but it's classic. Dialogs are numerous but you can spam the choices you're given for a response knowing it's linear.
But what it does, it does perfectly.

What I saw of BG3 make me hope we go beyond this linearity in terms of dialogs and gameplay (though for WotR I expect that the different mythic paths will change my experience as well).

Also WotR feels like a game that want to be as tabletop a game can be in terms of character skills customisation and fights. Larian chose to make the experience to feel more organic.

I never was disappointed by Larian so I'm not worried about the final result. If they can do as good as D:OS 2 i'll be happy.

That aside, I love that Owlcat Games decided to make a game like:
- How much epicness do you want?
- Yes.

Both studios love making their games and we can see it when we play.

Bg3 isnt completely out yet so its hard to really judge but I absolutely adore Wrath of the righteous and would have to say, almost with certainty that I will prefer it over BG3 at this point. While Wrath has some dips in the writing and it did feel rushed towards the end, its comprehensively one of the most impressive cprgs and rpgs in gneneral I have played, my issues with it are minimal and very personal at that. Whereheas I have issues with the general approach and some major decisions that BG3 did and thats before I look at the story (which I just do not judge so far).
BG3 seems to be doing a lot of new and different things, not neccessarily to my tastes, while Wrath pretty much masters all I enjoyed in the classics of old.

Both the KS and Pre-order(post KS) of the game was still $114 if you wanted to get into early access. So yeah I meant what I meant. You can even google search articles which talk about the $114 for early access which you had to fork over if you wanted in. It would make sense if early access was at a lower tier so more can get in.

Oh sure. And there are references in Aru's story as well -- so much sex + cannibalism going on in that game. Clearly, this is what BG3 is missing.

Having a good time with both games. Agree that people should be free to criticize. The game needs repair and some design tweaking and the devs need to know what to repair. I know it's my fault for playing on core but *wow* some of those fights in the Abyss are on the edge of impossible. Someone turned the challenge up to 11.

I get where @kanisatha is coming from. There was a time when no one was making these games and we don't want to discourage those devs.

At the same time there is a place for public critique and for insisting that companies have good business practices. I this really feels like a public beta to me. You can't just can't compare the bugs in Solasta on full release with the WotR bugs -- things like you can only open this chest if you save and reload are fine but game stopping bugs just shouldn't be in a game at release time.

The writing in BG3 is more literary, the writing in WotR is more philosophically informed. When I play WotR I miss the long conversations at camp, when I play BG3 I miss the banters and the walls of text inside the books.

On mechanics I have have a slight preference for BG3 because it's 5th ed and it's designed as a turn based game but in both cases I think the Solasta engine is still the best engine.

Oh and @Black_Elk yes Ember interesting because it's the first accurate presentation of a pessimist I've ever seen. Life is meaningless, cruel and hope is a trap because sets us up for disappointment. So feel joy where you can find it, be happy you are alive right now, make the most of moment and don't hope for better days to come.

Perhaps we should count ourselves lucky that the elves from dos aren’t making an appearance in Baldur’s Gate.

I also find myself enjoying reading those massive walls of texts in books. It’s quite charming. The books in BG3 have some cute references but they’re mostly short and easily digestible. As much as I whine about WoTR’s dialogue, their writing works well for prose.

And it’s also nice that both BG3 and WoTR exist. Not everyone has the luxury of affording both, but it’s great that the option is there at all.

Yeah the one thing I definitely can say about "BG3 versus WotR" is that it is a very GOOD thing the two games are quite different from each other. The lesson for me from my BG3 experience so far has been bitter, because I have waited so long for precisely a BG3 game and I so want to like it, but there are just so many things in the game that I dislike. So it is very good that all these comparable games (BG3, Solasta, WotR, Black Geyser) are very different from one another because if they were all the same then only one set of fans will be happy and everyone else will be unhappy. This way, different games can potentially cater to different sets of fans such that there is at least one game out there for everyone to love and be happy with.

I never had any expectation of there being a Baldur's Gate III, considering how definitively the last game ended, unless what you meant is a Baldur's Gate-like game. So maybe my expectations for Baldur's Gate 3 were a bit tempered, especially considering how much has changed in the landscape of D&D and computer RPGs as a whole.

WotR is what I would consider a posterchild for what isometric rules heavy cRPGs are now, a niche genre. RPGs have always been niche but I think there's been a change between what was able to be mainstream in Baldur's Gate's time and what is considered mainstream now, the audience for the games hasn't grown proportionate with the amount of money put into there development. When the audience for something becomes a niche within it's own base, you get games that will take the structure of what came before and dial everything up to the max, because there's an implicit understanding that the people playing are both going to trend towards people who are familiar with how these games work, and also know that development of the genre is now a specialized concern.

This is the more interesting aspect of comparing BG:3 and WotR to me because it might end up being significant to what the marketplace allows to be developed further.

I'm already quite far in the game and just realized something. Since the beginning of the game, I have never been attacked while resting. I wonder if this mechanic even exists or the game is just lying.