Right now, it seems you want to shut down a differing opinion, because you disagree with it. That's not healthy for a feedback environment.
Does it? O_o
I dunno where it came from. (Seriously)
Also i kinda struggle right now with right form to state my opinion without including anyone else, since my opinion exists only as contradiction to theirs. :-/ Seems impossible.
I can see tho, why you seen my last post as "too much" ... i was ... i duno how to say it, the proper word seem to be "overwhelmed" but that dont sounds right ... the situation when i thought i finaly realised where lays the core of the problem after SO MUCH TIME in SO MANY different topics, it just feeled absurd ... and yes i admit it (and no, im not sory for it ... i feel that i should be, but im not) that core sounded incredibly ridiculous to me.
So yes i was mocking the idea, and i used my favourite scene from comic series instead of questioning their capability of understanding things (
wich is obviously cool, since you dont coment on any of that at all) ... i thought it would be taken with more humor this way ... i see i was wrong, i try to remember that.
players might not actually like the way they play, they could simply have no choice.
I would dare to once again say that this is nonsence ...
I mean sure, there could be "some" players unable to think outside their box, so they adapt to system they hate instead of going around it ... teoreticaly, but i still have troubles imagine it. O_o
You used high ground as example ...
I would say that high ground specificly can be easily overcome ... by Arrows or roaring thunder, misty stepp and thunderwave, void bulbs (wich are surprisingly effective, when used on edge ... not even sure if there is a change to resist their pull), stealthing and shoving (wich have 100% chance for success), thorn Whip if you are Druid ... and i bet i forgot some options.
I mean, there is quite a lot options for us to use ... how is that possible that so many people believes that everyone choosed "do what i hate and complain on forum"?
This is bad, Rag. Just bad. This is the kind of behavior you need to hard-stop with. No matter of context, if people don't like something, you have no position or right to claim that it's nonsense.
Im sory to say it, but you seem to be focusing on wrong part of the sentence ...
I never claimed that its nonsence that someone "like or dislike" something ... i also countless times stated here on forum (but i dont blame you for not remembering, there is lot of us around) that im all in for free will ... i would NEVER forbid anyone from disliking anything!!!
And it sadens me that you believed oterwise.
I claimed, that its nonsence that they have "no choice but do things they dislike" ... and i stand for that claim, since they do have alternatives (and i know since i use them, its not imaginative), they just dont want to use them and there is important difference.
Even if you read the rest of that quote, it seems quite obvious to me that i was only talking about options, never claiming that someone cannot dislike anything. :-/
Really have honestly zero idea where this came from. :-/
Players may not like the feeling for that, as it "feels like" the game forces them to play a certain way, if they want to be optimal. So if you want a party with a tank, a healer, a rogue and a magic user, you're SOL in Dos2. (Of course you still -can-, but if this needs explaining at this point, then you're just not getting the point.)
I totally understand that, but that is exactly core of the problem i was talking about.
This is not matter of "getting" or "not getting" some point ... i just have different opinion.
People wants to use the best of the best, i can respect that, even tho i thing its not healthy attitude (especialy seeing them specificly complaining about it) ... and therefore they feel like "game is forcing them" ... but that is not corect, they are forcing themselves ...
Especialy now, when there is no dificiulty and anything in EA is vincible(?) no matter how uneffective your party is (you can thrust me, my parties are deep below optimal, i often even forgets the buff and stuff and yet i usualy manage somehow to survive).
All im trying to say is basicaly:
Try to sacrifice 10% of your efectivity to take companion you want instead of comanion you get best results with ... and you find something incomparably more precious ... FUN!
Ben there, done that, yars ago.
Just try it and you will see.
This same thing goes for high-ground in BG3. I personally don't have any issue with it at all, but I do see why people wouldn't enjoy it. To flip it a little, if say Larian addressed the issues some people have with the perceived importance of high-ground, and found a viable solution to fix that problem, would it even matter to the way you prefer to play the game, or is it a win for everyone? I suspect you wouldn't even notice it.
They dont even need to find any solution ... people suggested one that sounds really good ...
Just switch advantage with +1 to hit, or +10% for shooting range ... or both.
And yes, i would never mind it ... i even support that idea.
But that was not my point here as i stated abowe.
So why nitpick at legitimate feedback and issues others have. Just because you disagree, doesn't mean you have to try and "debunk" the value of which ever it is you disagree with. Lift people up, offer ideas, other perspectives. But don't shut others down. That's a job for moderation, and I am specifically addressing you right now. Take some time to reflect why.
Im sory, but i dont understand you here ...
How can any discusion exist, if disagreeing is forbidden? O_o
I mean, i believe i stated abowe that i was actualy trying to offer perspectives ... clearly i could (should?) choose different form ... but, that sounds little like neverending story. :-/
There's a reason why the Pokemon games are turning away from forced random encounters too. I'm one of those that generally don't enjoy combat in games (it's complicated), particularly random encounters. I find them annoying, disruptive and doesn't add anything to the game but pointless grind to waste my time. Your argument could be translated to "Just buy lots of repel items and spend most of your game experience playing item menu simulator to activate a new repel every 40 seconds, duh." - Completely evading the point in the first place. A mechanic or design that someone express an opinion about, is not devalued by a solution to it.
Wasnt there some item that reduced chance for random encounter to zero permanently?
Or im i misstaken that with Final Fantasy 8 ? :-/ Not sure now ...
It certainly was in FF8 tho. O_o
I know it was not your point, you just made me thinking out loud.
The fact that people don't enjoy highground isn't because of what they can or can't do to overcome it, but rather that the game feel bad; That they feel like they're playing bad or doing something wrong if they're not utilizing the most effective solutions at any given moment, further emphasized by enemy encounters often starting with advantage unless you have pre-existing knowledge of encounters ahead and can sneak/position yourself for it. There's valid arguments to be made of why that isn't always very good either.
You know this is catualy quite funny you mention it ...
You say that "they feel like they're playing bad or doing something wrong" ... yet you tell me that if im offering them alternatives since i "feel like they're playing bad or doing something wrong" ... im missing the point. O_O
Pardon my poor english ... but in such cases, when people really do feel that ... i would dare to argue that i hit straight to the point ...
I also dare to disagree with claiming that you need to have pre-existing knowledge ... it helps, sure ...
But the only place i can think about when you actualy use it, is Blighted Village, where there is passive perception check, and your party litteraly tells you that if you go through that gate, you go straight into ambush ...
Where else are mobs placed with High Ground, and you get there without knowing their locations?
- Maybe those looters before the crypt ... yes, if noboy is scouting ahead you get surprised ... if somebody IS, they get surprised ... i hope i dont need to say that i find scouting quite usefull, especialy in unknown teritory (yup, first gameplay included, maybe even mainly first gameplay).
- In whole goblin camp they are neutral ... so you can see them standing there before you attack.
- Gnolls are all attacking from the ground level (maybe except that one with bow, standing on the cliff, but he can also be seen).
- Githyanki are actualy even starting on low ground, or same level, if you run with whole party straight to their arms (wich i still concider to be bad idea, even for first gameplay, concidering what they do).
So again, i dont see here problem with system as it is ... i see here problem with state of minds of players. :-/
Nobody is checking for traps, and they they are angry that they get trapped ... is that fault of the trap? :-/
So ... what to say for the end.
I do actualy understand why people dont like "high ground" ... and no, i would really not mind if bonus from reaching it would be changed for anything else ... but i do like the idea so yes i would totally mind if bonus would be simply removed without any replacement.
Also i do understat what pisses people off (about high ground!) and no i never claimed that anyone could not express themselves, even if that could seem otherwise ... but i believe as long as people can repeat that "high ground is bad" i should be allowed to say "nope, high ground is fun".
Howgh.
