Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Shadowheart second act theory

I was thinking about the theory I've seen that Shadowheart was a Selunite brainwashed to go on a suicide mission for Shar, and how she mentions her memories will be returned to her in BG, but I might have understood it incorrectly. I was assuming she would have been a Selunite recently brainwashed to go on this mission but now I'm wondering if the mostly nice person we know from the EA is a result of all her memories as a Shar cultist being taken, leaving behind the person she was before being broken into Shar worship, a personality potentially many years old, many years of very unpleasant things.

This would set up the potential for a drastic character shift later in the story, we'll potentially be dealing with a very different person, possibly one more upfront with their alignment. I'm not sure how well this kind of twist could play out, especially with SH as a potential PC. I guess this was a bit more obvious to most people, and I don't know if the data-miners have weighed in.

I love the idea, especially with Shadowheart as a companion. To imagine having a player character falling in love with her and then wham! The rug is pulled out from under the feet, and Shadowheart completely changes into a full blown evil cleric of Shar. Wow, that would be brilliant and emotionally powerful.

But... you bring up a good point about Shadowheart as a player character option. Doing something like that would be really difficult. As it stands, I think there'll be little reveals all the way to Baldur's Gate, like the moment in the village with the schoolbook and the hopscotch and the abandoned helmet. Small reminders of who she is, so as a player character, the reveal in the city after she gets her memory back isn't so jarring to the system. Because ultimately, the player will have to decide how to play her personality when the dust settles.

As such, I lean toward thinking she'll be troubled, but mostly good at heart, if only because it will be more palatable to most players. If I were to hazard a guess, I would say that she's probably been blackmailed into her current quest somehow.

just remember, all the origin characters are the main character that we are role playing. You simply can't have plot twists with YOUR own character. it wouldn't make any sense at all. Unfortunately, Larian has written themselves into a corner here, what you see is basically what you get.

You can have plot twists with your character if your memories have been tampered with....see: KotOR

some information could also be found when you play as a sorcerer.

It's funny I just got that scene as a sorcerer, it's interesting, I'm wondering what the trigger for the magic hand is, some of the triggers for that convo were bugged with SH being able to reveal her faith a second time for me.

probably after you take Shadowheart interact with any Selune/Shar related things.

I think she's a Selune worshipper who have been brainwashed to believe she's a shar follower so she can infiltrate the cult and do a crucial mission in baldur's gate. The key to her memory recovery is linked to when she meets the person she's supposed to kill.

Either way, the only potential I see for this storyline assuming this is true is potential disaster and character assassination

Question here is how would Larian implement Origin Characters in general ...
So far it seems like we would be able to have full control over them, wich seems logical ... but also wrong. :-/

Right now i can easily Switch to Shadowheart and help Lae'zel out of her cage ...
And even tho i believe i would be able to do exactly that playing Shadowheart as my MC ...
It just feels wrong, doesnt it? O_o

Honestly i really hope that there will be limited options for Origin characters, that will prevent us from doing things the actual character would despite ... like in Shadowheart case: Helping Lae'zel, offering her help to Tieflings, suggesting to Kith'rak that we can work for him ... etc. etc.
Or if not limited, at least poping up HUGE RED WARNING that "this option is in direct contradiction with character you play believes ... please reconcider, since that choice would ruin your future story" :-/

As a player you won't know more of the plot than what the game reveals to you, even if you happen to play an origin character. Take Gale for example: he tells you he was the lover of a goddes and he might believe it to be true, but in this world of powerful magical beings, what does it mean? It could be something else masquarading, he would not know.

It's not that different from a detective story where at the end you learn it was the narrator telling the story who "did it".

I myself have wondered about this, OP, but I'm afraid I have to agree with both @Boblawblah and @Abits. As much as I would LOVE for SH to be a Selunite (given that I want my all-good party), if this is how it happens then that would seriously alienate me.

Don't get me wrong, the Selunite angle is really only something I added because of scuttlebutt on the forums, and isn't really necessary. I was thinking more along the lines of @JandK with the return of SH memories making her a much more cruel person, possibly one conflicted by her experience in the party having to re-reckon with a past persona.

I'm not sure which way you're going here, do you mean a character assassination because of events that happpened in the past? or a betrayal of the characterization we're getting right now?

Sure. I get that, and SH going in that direction would actually be okay with me because it would only reinforce my already negative views of her and justify me ending up taking her down.

OTOH, if they had made her a good-aligned character/Selunite right from the get-go, that would've have made me extremely happy because then I'd have my healer slot in the party filled perfectly for my paladin/champion of Lathander-led party.

But what I REALLY hate is this Larian mentality of trying to make every single one of their companion characters someone who has some secret plot twist. That's their go-to writing hook, their writing device through which they write every single one of their companions. That just turns such characters into lame cliches. One, or a few of your characters having some secret surprise twist is fine. Every single one having something like that is just aggravating and annoying and stupid. I interpret this tendecy as having a set of weak writers who cannot just let their writing stand on its own merits as good, quality writing. So they need to throw in these silly writing shenanigans to cover for weak/poor writing skills.

I wrote this on discord today;
"The thing is, if we assume it really is a brainwash story, there are only two ways I can think of they can take it once you cancel the brainwash, both are bad:

The Shadowheart after the brainwash is a completely new character, and the old one is just an undesireble perversion. This is the more interesting option, but I honestly doubt Larian will have the balls to do it, and it means that if you like current shadowheart too bad.

The other option is that new Shadowheart will be the same but with minor alterations. It is lame lazy and doesn't make sense, so I'm assuming this is what we'll get.

Either way what these options have in common is that they create a redemption arc without redemption. You just flip a switch and she's good."

If we go with Shadowheart is a Selunite sleeper agent theory then we could have a choice scenario.

The first night after entering Baldurs Gate, Shadowheart is missing from "camp".
We can track her to a temple of Selune where she is the focus of an occult ritual. The Selunites try to persude us that Shadowheart is one of theirs, a volunteer who infiltrated a Sharran cell to get the "weapon" into Selunite hands. Shadowheart begs us for help to escape.
We can choose to free Shadowheart (and keep her as a Shar/Trickery Cleric) or allow the Selunites to continue (and have her rejoin the party as a Selune/Light or Life Cleric).

They could add to this with follow-up quests.

If SH is still Sharran, perhaps we discover evidence in the temple that the Selunites were telling the truth. If we give the evidence to SH it may soften her personality a bit, make her less sure of Shar. Or we could withold the evidence to keep her strong but evil.
If Sh is Selunite, we could find evidence that the temple of Selune hadn't been fully honest with her, and their plans for the "weapon" are a bit worrying. Again withold or expose.

I could see SH becoming this games Viconia, especially if taking certain choices could cause her to abandon both Shar and Selune, and pledge to a neutral deity instead (or even to the Absolute, if you really mess her up!).

I can't agree with you, I think there can be a pretty compelling story to be told about having suppressed trauma resurface suddenly that causes you to revaluate your world-view. It's like if you met your younger more idealistic self from a position of profound cynicism. It's not a flip being switched, it's more like Vader seeing his son, and realizing the ramifications of choices he made years ago. Or like I mentioned earlier Revan in KotOR.

I think maybe it's the term 'Brainwashing' that's making this loaded, because of it's typical use in fiction. I don't think Shadowheart was magicked into being a Shar worshipper, that it could be later 'dispelled'. You get a pretty good bead on where she's coming from regarding her faith towards Shar, it involves stripping away the hypocrisy of civilization, it's merciless, yet we have a character that is shown to be fairly merciful (so long as it doesn't impact her mission)

So I'm half with you and half not, because there are plenty of examples of it working either way. It just comes down to how well it's told. And to cut to the quick, as much as I would like it to be otherwise, 5e is not low fantasy, it's not even very Tolkienesque, it's heroic fantasy from level 1. Our characters are ultramarines among the peasantry.

Very likely there'll be a choice for SH, either as companion or player, on how she will turn out, and whom she will serve.

agreed, i can't see how she's going to suddenly have a different personality. I'm assuming it will be the same snarky SH we know but with dialogue changed to reflect her "transformation". There's no other way they can do it to satisfy people. Can you imagine if she just completely changes personality half way through? You'll have everyone that likes the snarkiness angry, and everyone that hates the snarkiness will hate that it took so long for her to change. It will be the worst of both for everyone.