Overall I felt like I should have been level 5 in there, but I was still powering through everything easily because of free unlimited Long Rests and the Help Action. The Help Action is generally too much of a safety net because enemies can't keep the PC's down and they have to waste time trying. Once a PC is down, it should require magic healing to get them back into the fight.
Combat has flaws, as usual:
Grym, Eternal Protector of the Forge - This is like the Phase Spider Matriarch cranked up to 11 with an environmental gimmick except now it's the only thing you can do. I hate these gimmick fights that play more like a puzzle than D&D. A construct that is immune to literally everything except lava, seriously? How lucky for us we fight it in a forge with a lava valve! It's ok to have the environment influence the battle but here it is the whole battle. This type of combat design makes character builds completely irrelevant, except I hope you brought a Fighter with a blunt weapon or have the patience to try to hammer it with the forge.
Devil pigs and Merregon - a cool intriguing encounter. I thought I would tank the doorway but what do you know.. Larian made the pigs fly too. This is getting so frustrating. Why must literally everything teleport? Tanky defenders are absolutely pointless in this game. Everything jumps/teleports and players are also showered with Haste, Disengage and Misty Step items for extreme mobility for everyone. Mobility should not be the only relevant aspect of tactical combat!
Mimics - lovely surprise and they look terrifying. The Larian version has a new ranged pull attack. I guess this one is a bit more acceptable to replace the grapple effect they have in D&D since melee only enemies would probably get completely cheesed in a CRPG after players know to expect them.
Teleporting to the Forge with one character and cheating the rest of the party in through the waypoint felt more like an exploit than an accomplishment. Also teleporting to camp for a Long Rest when some characters have Misty Stepped to a location they can't return from felt very cheaty and unimmersive.
The area design and overall mood of the whole place is great. And the place is huge. The amount of sidequesting is getting really extensive though. Exploring ancient forges and mining for ore and whatnot with the tadpole situation still being largely unknown and urgent. I feel like I'd like to deal with the tadpole situation first and sidequest extensively AFTER that.
In the pig fight I put Lae'zel in the doorway but two pigs just flew over her immediately to go for Gale and my Sorcerer.
I suppose it's too late now to expedite the tadpole removal so the only real option is to make it clear there is no urgency. But even if someone told you it will be dormant until X happens it should still be a top priority to get the lethal alien parasite out of your brain.
The puzzle-nes of the Grym encounter is not really great. Doing somthing like that in a real campaign would be considered a dick move, since the normal run of the mill 4th level party would just be one thing encountering it: dead. The big problem here is: they expect us to examine the statblocks. But in reality that is heavy meta gaming. In a normal playthrough I'd like to not rely on it. Same goes for the lava effect that weakens it. It is just so very very gamey. And not in a good way, sadly. An encounter where there are just 1-2 "right" answers to it is not fun. Just make it a though construct and maybe a few additional minion constructs (so the action economy is not totally RIP against the enemies).
I had no issues with the merregon encounter, but maybe that was just luck. If they really have a fly speed or teleport or whatever: yes we need less of it.
Mimics were great imo.
The way to the forge should definitely be accessable to all kinds of parties. And lets all remember here that spell scrolls are not the solution to this: a) they could be "wasted" before encountering the forge (we dont want to rely on meta knowledge) b) scrolls can only be used if you have that spell on your spell list. So martial parties would be left out. And yes: getting just one PC over there and then use the teleport is really cheesy.
Really good point that they expect us to examine the stat blocks and metagame. I think that's one design principle that should be reversed immediately. Leave some room for logical thinking and trial and error. We are not supposed to know the exact stats of everything. We are not supposed to know which save to target with mathematical precision. If they want to highlight a more obvious temporary vulnerability there are better ways to do that without revealing the entire block and teaching the player to examine it all the time.
I would much rather see something like Pillars of Eternity and Pathfinder, where you slowly learn enemy stats by fighting them or through skill checks.
The help option is a good thing atm, looking at how easily some enemis can take you out of the fight. But i know your feeling. But realize that you are only knocked down helpless and die after 3 failed STs. It feels like a safety net because enemies do not have that option. This could be handled via difficulty settings i think,
going to only one saving throw to instant death on 0 HP. I hate difficulties that only power up enemies to knowhere...
On the adamantine golem, look up the beastary, those things ARE nigh unbeatable. Haveing to face one on such a low lvl should be impossible for a group like ours.
But this is larians game after all. They are using D&D 5e up to a point but changing stuff to make the game feel more like theirs. We have a lot of threads about those changes already since most of them break the balance of the ruleset. Happens when you decide to change something.
I did not have issues with pigs and merregon : I just enjoyed so much to block the door with my melee.
That said, I agree 100% with everything else. About the tadpole they should just get rid of the urgency at some point.
I agree with getting rid of the urgency factor. There should just be a point that removes that and tells us that the tadpole is not meant for transformation, but control or something along those lines. Happy questing and exploring with the fear of transforming into a mindflayer is really cringey.
Fighting Nere was a big disappointment. He was a total punching bag even though he had been presented as a scary powerful leader. I hope it's because we don't have 3rd or 4th level spells yet.
About Grym again.. once you exploit his "threat assessment", why does he just ignore the PC that is whacking away with a blunt weapon and a potion of giant strength for massive damage? He could kill that PC first and then move towards the "threat". Or perhaps the "threat assessment" should recognize the only PC that can actually do damage to him? This is an exploitative pre-scripted gamey fight to the max and I just absolutely hate the whole thing.
Winning an impossible battle by having to exploit a bad AI makes it a hollow victory.
Sorry for necroing - but I have to agree, fighting Nere was a total disappointment (apart from the fact, that it was satisfying to kill the dbag) - he didn't really attack that much, most of the time, he just used a shield and ran away. I haven't done Grym yet - that will probably be my last encounter, everyone else, who isn't a deep gnome or deep rothé, is dead now or magically vanished.
I find navigating in Grymforge a tad bit vexing tbh.
"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."
Sorry for necroing - but I have to agree, fighting Nere was a total disappointment (apart from the fact, that it was satisfying to kill the dbag) - he didn't really attack that much, most of the time, he just used a shield and ran away. I haven't done Grym yet - that will probably be my last encounter, everyone else, who isn't a deep gnome or deep rothé, is dead now or magically vanished.
I find navigating in Grymforge a tad bit vexing tbh.
I dunno, I think "obviously evil" enemy NPC's are kind of disappointing. I mean his voice alone is reason to kill him honestly.
My favorite villain was Letho from Witcher2/3 - I can understand his motivation and POV. He isn't a total monster.
Sorry for necroing - but I have to agree, fighting Nere was a total disappointment (apart from the fact, that it was satisfying to kill the dbag) - he didn't really attack that much, most of the time, he just used a shield and ran away. I haven't done Grym yet - that will probably be my last encounter, everyone else, who isn't a deep gnome or deep rothé, is dead now or magically vanished.
I find navigating in Grymforge a tad bit vexing tbh.
I dunno, I think "obviously evil" enemy NPC's are kind of disappointing. I mean his voice alone is reason to kill him honestly.
My favorite villain was Letho from Witcher2/3 - I can understand his motivation and POV. He isn't a total monster.
Oh yes, his voice is really grating - it's worse than Astarions voice for me (and that means something)
"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."
That and he blames others for his mistakes - everyone else is at fault, but not him.
Exactly ... classic egocentric asshole. :3 You know him for litteraly five seconds and you allready want to smash his stupid face ... with a 2H mace ... thats what i call well written character. :P
Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 05/01/2207:33 PM.
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
Nere wasn't a real issue. I wasn't going to kill him since I play a cleric of eilastraee. I was able to talk him down, and that worked.
The big problem were the enslaved gnomes who stuck around during the attack so I could not use some of my better magic maneuvers for fear of hitting one and them going hostile.
The biggest issue for me was Grymforge was boring. There were no further real party interactions during rest, and I expected more from Shadowheart given the obvious Shar stuff in the temple, but nope.
Hated the Golem as well.
I thought this was just more video-gamey busy work. I was not immersed. Yeah, its Early Access.
For me the only issue in Grymforge was that one of the gnomes would, after blowing up the rocks, run through the fire to get free and then everyone would turn hostile. But I like the area layout in that fight, different places you can approach it from, including the platforms. Golem fight was ok, my first party was an arcane group, so the only characters armed with blunt weapons were my sorc and Gale. Had to lure the thing on the anvil instead.
edit: And of course I forgot my favourite encounter: the mimics.
It is a bit weird we get two older threads on Grymforge at the same time. I will pick the latest one.
Personally, I am okay with puzzles in combats. A good D&D game should have them now and then. Perhaps the only thing that can be considered is skill checks to get behind the weaknesses of the construct (the magma weakness should be pretty obvious though). We also had some information about the construct from the various drow notes so it's not quite a metagame. There is of course, the risk that not many players will get that note and that might make the fight a bit of nightmare for them. Perhaps some middle path will be best in that case.
There are a number of ways to defeat Grym: you can either use standard bludgeoning damage or environment (
that is the hammer
). You can be quite successful as long as you have patience and one character who can do bludgeoning damage (in my case, it was Shadowheart).
My main criticism on the Grym encounter is that your party does not go on the nearest high ground the moment the lava comes in. The lava is obviously pouring slow enough.
Nere's fight: Another light criticism is that they should nerf the shoving. By the rules, it can not be more than 5 feet. They can modify that based on the roll a bit but right now it is a bit weird. It also seem powerful enough to warrant an action and not a bonus action.
Quote
going to only one saving throw to instant death on 0 HP. I hate difficulties that only power up enemies to knowhere...
By the hells, are you a masochist? One of the pros of the 5e is that they made dying a bit more difficult. It can be only me but I prefer powered up enemies to nerfing my own abilities (unless it is plot related)
There is of course, the risk that not many players will get that note and that might make the fight a bit of nightmare for them. Perhaps some middle path will be best in that case.
Maybe larian will add some hint in the game ... I can imagine your companions giving your advice to lure him toward the hammer.
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
