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member
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OP
member
Joined: Oct 2020
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So after playing the game a bit more, I'm finding I really don't like the camp supplies. The camp-supply system encourages more resting (which is a good thing), but it feels very forced and non-organic. Before we found food... and we ate it just like we do in the real world. Now you find food and... you don't eat it. You sleep on it? I am aware food introduced some balancing issues by offering cheap healing without rest or magic. But the only real issue I had with it before was that I could eat 5 lbs of cheese while parrying a blow. But instead of just fixing combat usage and making it drop less often, Larian had to go crazy and implement this tedious and insane system. They couldn't just gray out the cheese during combat? Or get rid of food all together? One benefit of playing a Computer Game over playing Table Top is that the computer can do the tedious stuff for us, enabling us to focus on having fun instead of counting things and tracking dice. Why do I have to look over my inventory and count the camp supply points and see if I have the 40 needed to rest? Why the arbitrary number 40? Why not 9000? Or a progress bar that is either full or not full? As for Long Rests... I don't care if people spam their long rests. When someone plays this game singleplayer, they are their own GM and thus should have the freedom to set some of their own house rules. If someone want's unlimited long rests, unlimited short rests and food consumption to replenish health during the campaign... that should be the their choice. I can't imagine that WoC would have a problem with giving players/groups freedom to decide some not-so-well defined things like Sleep/Food/Long Rest requirements for themselves. So I am a fan of choices and that normally means config options. In this instance I think it would benefit multiplayer as well, enabling groups to declare and share their common rules. Let people decide how much time they want to spend looting every container for cheese instead of fighting epic battles.Here is an example. (Below, LEVEL = level of highest leveled character in multiplayer or PLAYER in SINGLE PLAYER campaign). FOOD:
[ X ] Show Food in Game
[ X ] Food restores Hit Points
[ ] Food restores Spell Points
[ ] Food restores Skill Points
[ X ] Food has weight
[ X ] Food has value
SHORT RESTS:
[ 2 ] Short Rests per Long Rest (Select from: 1,2,4,8,LEVEL)
[ 100% ] Hit Points restored by Short Rest
[ 0% ] Spell Points restored by Short Rest
[ 100% ] Skill Points restored by Skill Points
[ ] Realistic Rests (Restore HP by distributing food)
[ ] Teleport to (Daytime) Camp on Activation
[ ] Enable Pre-Sleep cutscenes
[ ] Enable Post-Sleep cutscenes
LONG RESTS:
[ 5 ] Minute cooldown before Long Rest button re-enabled. (Select from: 0, 1, 5, 10, 20, 30, 60)
[ LEVEL * 0 ] XP Gain Required before next FULL Long Rest allowed (Select from: * 0, * 1, * 5, ^ 2, ^ 3)
[ 100% ] Matching Food Hit Points required for FULL Long Rest (Select from: 0%, 25%, 50%, 75%, 100%)
[ 0% ] Matching Food Spell Points required for FULL Long Rest (Select from: 0%, 25%, 50%, 75%, 100%)
[ 0% ] Matching Food Skill Points required for FULL Long Rest (Select from: 0%, 25%, 50%, 75%, 100%)
[ 10% ] Requirement Discount per Short Rest Taken (Select from: 0%, 5%, 10%, 15%, 20%)
FULL LONG REST:
[ 100% ] Short Rests Restored by FULL Long Rest (Select from: 0%, 25%, 50%, 75%, 100%)
[ 100% ] Hit Points Restored by FULL Long Rest (Select from: 0%, 25%, 50%, 75%, 100%)
[ 100% ] Spell Points Restored by FULL Long Rest (Select from: 0%, 25%, 50%, 75%, 100%)
[ 100% ] Skill Points Restored by FULL Long Rest (Select from: 0%, 25%, 50%, 75%, 100%)
[ ] Realistic Rests (Restore HP by distributing food)
PARTIAL LONG REST:
[ 0% ] Short Rests Restored by PARTIAL Long Rest (Select from: 0%, 25%, 50%, 75%, 100%)
[ 50% ] Hit Points Restored by PARTIAL Long Rest (Select from: 0%, 25%, 50%, 75%, 100%)
[ 50% ] Spell Points Restored by PARTIAL Long Rest (Select from: 0%, 25%, 50%, 75%, 100%)
[ 50% ] Skill Points Restored by PARTIAL Long Rest (Select from: 0%, 25%, 50%, 75%, 100%)
[ ] Realistic Rests (Restore HP by distributing food)
TIME:
[ 10 ] Minutes realtime equates to 1 hour game time (Select from: 10, 20, 30, 60, INF)
SLEEP REQUIREMENTS - COMPANIONS:
[ 16 ] Hours after Long Rest NPC becomes tired (12,16,24,32,48,INF)
[ 24 ] Hours after Long Rest NPC becomes fatigued (12,16,24,32,48,INF)
[ 32 ] Hours after Long Rest NPC becomes exhausted (12,16,24,32,48,INF)
[ Tired ] Animations show weariness (Never, Tired, Fatigued, Exhausted)
[ Fatigued ] Action Comments Reflect Unhappiness (Never, Tired, Fatigued, Exhausted)
[ Never ] Reduce Speed by 25% (Never, Tired, Fatigued, Exhausted)
[ Never ] Reduce Speed by 50% (Never, Tired, Fatigued, Exhausted)
[ Never ] Reduce Speed by 75% (Never, Tired, Fatigued, Exhausted)
[ Exhausted ] Leave for camp (Never, Tired, Fatigued, Exhausted) * Req Long Rest to regain
SLEEP REQUIREMENTS - PLAYER CONTROLLED:
[ 16 ] Hours after Long Rest PC becomes tired (12,16,24,32,48,INF)
[ 24 ] Hours after Long Rest PC becomes fatigued (12,16,24,32,48,INF)
[ 32 ] Hours after Long Rest PC becomes exhausted (12,16,24,32,48,INF)
[ Tired ] Animations show weariness (Never, Tired, Fatigued, Exhausted)
[ Fatigued ] Action Comments Reflect Unhappiness (Never, Tired, Fatigued, Exhausted)
[ Never ] Reduce Speed by 25% (Never, Tired, Fatigued, Exhausted)
[ Exhausted ] Reduce Speed by 50% (Never, Tired, Fatigued, Exhausted)
[ Never ] Reduce Speed by 75% (Never, Tired, Fatigued, Exhausted)
[ Never ] Forced Long Rest (Never, Tired, Fatigued, Exhausted)
REGENERATION:
[ FAST ] Hit Point Regen Rate Safe Area (NEVER,SLOW,MED,FAST,INSTANT)
[ FAST ] Spell Point Regen Rate Safe Area (NEVER,SLOW,MED,FAST,INSTANT)
[ FAST ] Skill Point Regen Rate Safe Area (NEVER,SLOW,MED,FAST,INSTANT)
[ MED ] Hit Point Regen Rate Unsafe Area (NEVER,SLOW,MED,FAST,INSTANT)
[ SLOW ] Spell Point Regen Rate Unsafe Area (NEVER,SLOW,MED,FAST,INSTANT)
[ SLOW ] Skill Point Regen Rate Unsafe Area (NEVER,SLOW,MED,FAST,INSTANT)
[ 50% ] Hit Points reached before regen stops (0%, 10%, 25%, 50%, 75%, 100%)
[ 50% ] Spell Points reached before regen stops (0%, 10%, 25%, 50%, 75%, 100%)
[ 50% ] Skill Points reached before regen stops (0%, 10%, 25%, 50%, 75%, 100%)Some of the options above are of my own making and some were based on other threads/suggestions I've read here. What I call a PARTIAL Long Rest is one where you don't meet the requirements for a Long Rest, but the game lets you do it anyway for reduced benefit. The game already has this in place. If you don't have enough camp supplies, you can still long rest for 50% benefit. I envision Difficulty level would be a combo box that effectively pre-selects a combination of settings from above. If players fine tune the checkboxes/combo boxes, the difficulty level would change to CUSTOM (Or HOMEBREW). Saves made with CUSTOM/HOMEBREW rules might get a special branding similar to the way some games brand saves made with mods installed. Finally... I would like to see a progress bar that shows the progress to the next LEVEL on the main UI. If XP gain is required to enable another FULL Long Rest, ideally I would see a grayed out bed icon floating on the progress bar somewhere. When the progress reaches/passes, it gains color indicating I can now do a FULL Long Rest again. People can long rest anytime, but the gains would max out at 50% when the bed is gray. One might also be "encouraged" to Long Rest if the party becomes too tired or you want to Level Up (Yeah, I would require going back to Camp for Level Up as well).
Last edited by Dheuster; 29/10/21 05:11 AM.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2020
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I like the change mainly for two reasons:
1) food healing was OP
2) not I don't have to carry food in my inventory, making it less cluttered.
With that in mind food is kinda pointless as - there is too much of it to be plentiful (Sven in second to last streams claimed that food requirement will increase with levels, however nothing of that sort is in the built - either idea was scrapped, not yet implemented or will come to play every few levels).
As others mentioned a nice QoL feature would be rest menu also checking our stash for food - after all sending all food to the camp is the simplest and neatest way do that, so it would save us doing trips to the stash when in camp.
Outside being superfluous mechanic I like the concept. I am weary of requestiong something more punishing - I don't need frustrations of of let's say Kingmaker.
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member
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OP
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Joined: Oct 2020
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I think food is what people make of it. When I found food, typically someone was injured, and food had weight. So I would normally consume it when found to keep my companions topped off as that meant not having to carry it. I also basically ignored Short Rest. The mechanic was foreign to me (coming from BG2/3.5E rules). So basically food replaced Short Rest for me and Long Rest did what I expected, but I still avoided it because I felt like the consequences would be dire.
In my own homebrew game, How I would config things: Food would provide health but in trade, Short rests and Long Rests would not. (Though you could still heal with spells gained from rest). Maybe throw in a med regen up to 10% health in safe areas like Camp and the Druid Grove. Maybe add option for Long Rests (Full or Partial) to distribute the food you have for you... but that isn't the same as giving you free health, it is just a convenience.
So I agreed... food could be OP if one wanted to abuse it. I didn't and I imagined there are others like me that never short-rested and opted to just eat the food as it felt more natural.... more like the thing we are meant to be doing when we short rested. But I see so many people say "It should be this way" (And yes, I have been guilty of that too). So rather than ask Larian to force my opinion on others, I would instead petition for more options so that everyone can tweak the rules to their own tastes. The above would let me play the way I want to. What other options would be needed to let others play the way they wanted to?
Last edited by Dheuster; 27/10/21 09:17 PM.
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veteran
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Joined: Mar 2020
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So rather than ask Larian to force my opinion on others, I would instead petition for more options so that everyone can tweak the rules to their own tastes. The above would let me play the way I want to. What other options would be needed to let others play the way they wanted to? I am not a fan of treating the campaign like a creativity toy. Larian designs campaign and it needs ruleset that will make this campaign work well - that means pacing rests and encouraging engagement with mechanics. If food made combat to easy, and made some ignore core mechnics, like rests, healing spells or items designed for that purpose, then it wasn't a good implimentation. Sure, allow flexible modding if people want to mess with the ruleset, but out of the box it should be well designed - not asking players to DM the campaign. Current system encourages people to take advantage of both short and long rest while potential food limit might discourage from spamming long rest too often. Overall a better experience for all I would think. Not perfect, but better. Better is good.
Last edited by Wormerine; 27/10/21 10:56 PM.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Oct 2020
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Now you find food and... you don't eat it. You sleep on it? Of course you eat it ... -_- Come on, this is just matter of "stopped day time" in this game ... same as we are able to run around the map for 8 hours of real time, while there is high Noon this whole time in game ... and then, when we press long rest button to "end the day" all that time magicaly pass, and we have midnight ... The same mechanic is used for food ... our characters are obviously eating and drinking whole day ... and when the day is ended, and we "wrap it all up" ... our amount of food supply is reduced by what we roleplay-wise "have eaten during that day". :-/ Seems like quite easy concept to me ... Havent you never done anything simmilar in Tabletop sesion? O_o
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings.  Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2021
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With the current abundance of food in the game I'm surprised short rests are free. Surely like a 10-15 supply cost for a short rest, and forced 2x short rest before long rest unlocks leading to a total of 70 supply cost for a day.
This would solve the "long rest after every minor/major scuffle cheese rest abuse" because you'd burn through your supplies too fast.
Changing the companion camp cutscenes to also trigger after a short rest(where it's not required to be night time) would help to keep the companion story progressing with the lower long rest quantity.
Would actually encourage the use of spells like Prayer of Healing, or even just using the healing spells because you can't just spam rests to heal up or you'll run out of supplies. Currently I haven't used any healing spells because you can just drink the healing potions(that are WAY too frequent to acquire) during combat, and then outside of combat you can just press short rest or long rest.
Would probably also contribute to the game feeling more like a tabletop campaign where you can't just full heal for free after every fight.
And just to cover my ass from people who think that would make the game too hard, just make it a toggle in the settings to have "realistic rests" or something. Maybe even make it so on Normal and higher difficulties rests have costs, and then on easy and story mode they don't.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Dec 2017
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It's just another thing one has to micromanage.
I'd say: get rid of it and add a reasonable cooldown to long rests (like 30 minutes or so, because some of us like to game FAST).
Although I have to admit I'm a very anti-micromanagement guy, so this is just one voice here.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Feb 2020
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With the current abundance of food in the game I'm surprised short rests are free. Surely like a 10-15 supply cost for a short rest, and forced 2x short rest before long rest unlocks leading to a total of 70 supply cost for a day. I like this idea. Very much.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Sep 2015
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[quote=Dheuster]Current system encourages people to take advantage of both short and long rest while potential food limit might discourage from spamming long rest too often. Overall a better experience for all I would think. Not perfect, but better. Better is good. And it's easily tweakable with difficulty levels. I imagine the tactical difficulty will have a reduced amount of food available in game. Cause right now, you can literally camp anytime you want.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Oct 2020
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Seriously if you dislike the mincromanagement, just support the idea of packing 40 units of food into 1 Camp Supply ... By right clicking on any food in your inventory. With the current abundance of food in the game I'm surprised short rests are free. Surely like a 10-15 supply cost for a short rest, and forced 2x short rest before long rest unlocks leading to a total of 70 supply cost for a day. What does it change, except raising amount of supply cost per Long Rest to 70? O_o
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
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addict
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addict
Joined: Aug 2021
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With the current abundance of food in the game I'm surprised short rests are free. Surely like a 10-15 supply cost for a short rest, and forced 2x short rest before long rest unlocks leading to a total of 70 supply cost for a day. I like this idea. Very much. Agreed. I'd also suggest a relationship between rest cost and party size. Solo? 10 food units for long rest. All companions plus druid traveling companion? That's 70. For the short rests, I'd swag 3× size of active party, so 3-12. I'm not sure about requiring short rest before long rest, because maybe you think you're doing a minor encounter before a big one, and you're just unlucky. Maybe a cleaner way disencentize long rests is to not allow them in unlikely locations. You have to be in the home base of the faction you're in good standing with, or in the wilderness far from baddies. Tollhouse is okay, blighted village is only safe if you're goblin-aligned or a drow, etc Obviously that is (a) too complicated to implement, (b) difficult to make clear to players, and (c) defeated by fast travel, so it's an unreasonable suggestion, but I think it's better than requiring short rests before long ones.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Sep 2020
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With the current abundance of food in the game I'm surprised short rests are free. Surely like a 10-15 supply cost for a short rest, and forced 2x short rest before long rest unlocks leading to a total of 70 supply cost for a day. I like this idea. Very much. Agreed. I'd also suggest a relationship between rest cost and party size. Solo? 10 food units for long rest. All companions plus druid traveling companion? That's 70. For the short rests, I'd swag 3× size of active party, so 3-12. I'm not sure about requiring short rest before long rest, because maybe you think you're doing a minor encounter before a big one, and you're just unlucky. Maybe a cleaner way disencentize long rests is to not allow them in unlikely locations. You have to be in the home base of the faction you're in good standing with, or in the wilderness far from baddies. Tollhouse is okay, blighted village is only safe if you're goblin-aligned or a drow, etc Obviously that is (a) too complicated to implement, (b) difficult to make clear to players, and (c) defeated by fast travel, so it's an unreasonable suggestion, but I think it's better than requiring short rests before long ones. +1 Perhaps instead of requiring short rests, if you DON'T short rest then the cost of food from those missing short rests is added onto your long rest total. This simulates such long rests actually encompasing you sitting around at camp for 16 hours, and only then going to sleep. E.g., 2 short rests costing 10 food each, then long rest costing 40. If you only take one short rest during the day, then the long rest costs 50. If you don't take any short rests, then the long rest costs 60. This could be modified so it's actually more expensive to only long rest, to simulate you only having to feed your party of 4 during short rests if you're traveling, but you have to feed all your camp members during short rests if you're just sitting around in camp. E.g., only long resting in the above example costs 70 or 80 total food, compared to the total of 60 if you use both short rests. This encourages short restingt, but still allows for players to just long rest if they want. Always +1 for restricting your ability to long rest (and teleport) in certain areas: e.g., Hag Lair, in the goblin church.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Oct 2021
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to me, the cost of a long rest should be 10 food per camp dweller, goodberries should come by 10 and provide 10 supplies each, to coincide with the description. I am not really a fan of limiting things, but since there is food in the game, it's nice to see it being used
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Oct 2021
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I can't even say if I like the camp supplies or not right now because there are so many supplies. It all depends on what the balance turns out to be.
Too many camp supplies = what's the point?
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2021
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Seriously if you dislike the mincromanagement, just support the idea of packing 40 units of food into 1 Camp Supply ... By right clicking on any food in your inventory. With the current abundance of food in the game I'm surprised short rests are free. Surely like a 10-15 supply cost for a short rest, and forced 2x short rest before long rest unlocks leading to a total of 70 supply cost for a day. What does it change, except raising amount of supply cost per Long Rest to 70? O_o I said a little further in my original post that if they made short rests required and attached camp supply cost to them that Larian could then attach companion cutscenes to short rests and long rests. So each day you'd get 3 companion cutscenes instead of just the 1. The end goal is to punish the players that abuse long rests, if they long rest after every single fight they'll run out of supplies super quick, and potentially feel like their time is being wasted and game experience interrupted by all the companion cutscenes. This would encourage them to play more realistically. This turns the short rest button from a free 50% group wide heal into an actual rest where you'd done some hard combat, had the post combat dialogue, take a short rest and get some more companion interaction, then repeat. I'm trying to solve 3 problems with one solution, so forgive me if it's not perfect. (those problems being long rest abusers, companion story progression tied to long rest thus resulting in encouraging long rest abusing or punishment by reduction in story content, and the overabundance of food/rest capacity leading to a lack in tactical overall adventure decisions)
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Dec 2020
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not many people are a fan of them, Tuco aside  Seriously though, I think they should change the resting system a bit. First, no resting at all in certain locations. No more teleporting everywhere. Also, camp supplies should automatically go to your camp and you shouldn't have to micromanage them at all. that's not D&D, that's just pointless busywork.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Oct 2020
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I said a little further in my original post that if they made short rests required and attached camp supply cost to them that Larian could then attach companion cutscenes to short rests and long rests. So each day you'd get 3 companion cutscenes instead of just the 1. So we would be reaching our camp for every rest, no matter if long or short? :-/ I dont like that honestly, not even a little bit. The end goal is to punish the players that abuse long rests, if they long rest after every single fight they'll run out of supplies super quick, and potentially feel like their time is being wasted and game experience interrupted by all the companion cutscenes. I dont even understand why do you care.  So there are people who are resting after each fight ... so what? This would encourage them to play more realistically. This turns the short rest button from a free 50% group wide heal into an actual rest where you'd done some hard combat, had the post combat dialogue, take a short rest and get some more companion interaction, then repeat. The only thing you change is that you will consume part of your rations during short rest ... If you would simply raise amount of food needed for Long rest, while keeping short rest free ... the outome will be exactly the same. Since Larian presented us Minicamps, we know (or we should know) that to make all cutscenes work there was a lot of additional work ... Therefore we can presume that they cant play anywhere ... therefore we would need to return to camp ... So your only outcome would be making Short rests almost as anoying as Long Rests are right now. :-/ Also i dont quite see the reason behing conditioning Long Rest by Short Rest deplenished ... if my cleric, my wizard and my sorcerer all have zero Spell Slots, its reasonable for me to go to Long rest ... why would i need to make another two Short Rests that gives me nothing AND costs me additinal supplies? O_o (those problems being long rest abusers, companion story progression tied to long rest thus resulting in encouraging long rest abusing or punishment by reduction in story content, and the overabundance of food/rest capacity leading to a lack in tactical overall adventure decisions) - Long rest "absuers" > I dont see why people care ... you rest once per five hours, i will rest once per five minutes ... none of that what any of us is doing have any effect on the other one ... - Companion Story progression > This was allready resolved by suggestion that was given in the past ... i wonder why Larian didnt implement it yet ... 2 Simple things ... 1) Allow companions to say "we need to talk next time we will be in our camp" ... 2) Allow conversation to happen anytime in camp ... meaning not just at evening, but every time you enter the camp ... And voila. Companion asks you to talk > you go talk > you return to your andventure ... - Amount of food in game is irellevant ... For one, nothing is forcing you to gather it all ... For two, nothing is forcing you to use it even if you gather it ... there are camp suplies ... and if Maximuuus suggestion will get green (and i hope it will, since i like that MUCH more), you will be able (if you toggle that option) to only use them, and you will need to act quite strategicaly, since their amount would be seriously reduced. :P
Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 29/10/21 01:23 PM.
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Oct 2021
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that's not D&D, that's just pointless busywork. d&d is half maths and half inventory management you can't remove everything... to further not contribute to the topic at hand, I don't see the problem with the rest "abusers" on a solo game with local multiplayer capabilities. I can see a problem with the story I've witness so far since our characters have tadpoles and could turn at any moment, so, wasting time is unwise but any other reason for restricting rests seem unwarranted to me. also, see my previous point about goodberry, I can't let my favorite spell be useless... but, I can't know, I have to visit every single merchant before accepting a new companion, leveling or resting (in this order), which usually takes a long time and as a result, I have yet to try long resting... I play weird is what I'm saying.
Last edited by auriejir; 29/10/21 01:36 PM.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Sep 2020
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The point, at least for me, isn't to punish long rest abusers, but to make the game more immersive and balanced for myself.
Right now, it is unclear how often Larian expects you to rest**. I can try to play reasonably, sleeping only when I think my characters would be tired, but there's no metric to measure that against except for how many resources I've used and that is entirely a player decision. It's similar to me being given a range of +0 to +5 weapons at the start of the game, and being told "the game is balanced for you using one of these options but we won't tell you which." Having to restrict my playstyle, intentionally choosing to play sub-optimally, is not fun (for non "challenge" runs) and is not good game design.
**That statement is actually a lie, because right now for story-purposes Larian expects you to rest after ~every combat to see all the cutscenes. However, this is not necessarily matched to the combat balance. Does Larian create encounters with the expectation that your party has full resources for each fight, or are they actually planning out encounters to account for attrition over an "adventuring day?" Who knows.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Oct 2021
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your character actually complains fairly frequently that they are tired if you don't rest. it has been toned down a bit in the latest patch but it is still there
Last edited by auriejir; 29/10/21 09:15 PM.
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