Originally Posted by Alyssa_Fox
Originally Posted by ArvGuy
Irenicus got mad for power and went way too far in his pursuit of it, but back then he wasn't a monster. He was simply too ambitious and not worried about consequences. So he had to be punished. To do so they took his soul away, and with that his ability to feel anything. Thus he became an induced sociopath who remembers what it was like to feel, but who cannot do it anymore. And he knows that he cannot feel, and he desperately want to feel, but he just cannot.

So he wanted to become a god just for the sake of more power and didn't care that people may die, but he wasn't a monster? How does this makes sense? If he had a reason to want godlike powers aside from being a powerhungry megalomaniac I could have agreed with you, but it is established that he just wanted more power and was totally okay with innocent people dying. That's pure evil. Also for a person who can't feel anything he surely feels annoyed and frustrated a lot.


Originally Posted by ArvGuy
Intellectually, he knows that he loves his sister, but his emotional capacity to do so has been removed. Intellectually he knows that he probably still loves Ellesime, but he is not capable of love, and his condition has eaten away even his memories of what it was like to love. He still remembers it as a concept, much like one might remember having learned to ride a bicycle or flying for the first time at some specific point in one's life without actually remembering what it was like.

That's a very fucked up notion of love considering that he had no qualms about betraying her and other elves with his Tree of Life shenanigans. Love without respect isn't love, it's obsession. He was obsessed about Ellesime, he never loved her. You could argue he loved Bodhi, but not Ellesime considering how he backstabbed her.

Originally Posted by ArvGuy
And with his ability to feel destroyed and his memory of his life as an elf badly deteriorated he has become the monster they punished him for being previously. He didn't set out to be a monster initially, but now that he has become one anyway, why exactly should he not pursue his old goal? Why should he care about torturing some shadow thieves or a couple of bhaalspawn? "The law" means nothing to him and his conscience has been taken away with his soul. What is left for him but to seek power for the sake of power, and maybe settle some scores along the way?

As for him being mediocre, I disagree. His plans were pretty solid all the way through. Set up shop and provoke a war with a guild of incompetent losers. His base got attacked sooner than anticipated but it was still anticipated and he easily moved to Spellhold instead. Meanwhile he had dealings with the Drow and provoked them into engaging the surface elves, tying up their forces so he could pursue his actual goal with minimal interruptions. And despite some serious interference from a player character that just will not die, he still executes the whole thing.

Set up a shop in a town where magic is illegal, never bother to get a license or some political clout to protect himself from cowled wizards in case they get onto him. That's Irenicus being dumb. Now he is arrested and while he is obviously dangerous Cowled Wizards (who btw have at least one lvl 30 wizard at their disposal) don't decide to execute him on spot like they do with PC who ignored their warnings, but they send him to Magical Asylum without increasing the guard or taking any special precautions despite the guy literally murdering like dozen of Cowled Wizards before. That's Irenicus having plot armor. Oh, and Imoen is sent with him, even though it's her first time minor offense (she only casted like 1 magic missile, something that gets PC getting warned, not arrested to be shipped to a looney house), how convenient, isn't it?
When you have a shot at borderline godhood, are you really going to stand with your private parts in your hand and just stare at the chance or are you going to go for it? Some people could theoretically get hurt by it but let's be honest, some people are always hurt by something and it's probably not going to be so bad and you mean really well, right?

If this sounds like a stretch then have a look at Elon Musk. The guy who is going to "save the planet" with "brilliant" electric cars and whatnot is also doing a whole bunch of pointless rocket launches and investing in a crypto with a carbon footprint the size of a small country. Is he a bad guy, though? Or just a nerd who dreams big but can't always quite grasp the finer details of what he's doing?

So yeah, Irenicus went for it. Then he got punished and became what you see in the game. And that thing indeed isn't capable of love anymore, but that doesn't mean he didn't feel it before he got punished. Now, did he betray Ellesime? Of course he did. And that's not something that anyone should do to people they love, but it does happen on a fairly regular basis, and that in itself doesn't show that people don't love the people they betray. But some times they love something else more, some times emotions ebb and flow, and some times people just rationalize too damn well.

Take Keldorn's wife. You reckon she doesn't love Keldorn? She did betray him, after all. Granted, she did that after he sort of betrayed her by never being around, only that's not formally a betrayal so it doesn't count, but logically it kinda is, and so maybe it should count anyway? Kind of confusing, isn't it? And messy. And not very neat and orderly. That's love for you.

As for his planning being bad, no, not really. Magic is illegal where he sets up shop but so what? What are the Cowled Wizards really going to do to him? He can kill them off at will, however many they come at him. Their pathetic magics are useless. He cannot be contained. He cannot be controlled. They have no purpose but to die by his hand, something they come to understand as they die, ever pathetic, ever fools. My point is, he does not fear them in the slightest so why should he bother ingrating himself?

Yes, they take him in, but only after he's killed a whole bunch without breaking a sweat and them taking him in, along with Imoen, is part of his condition to "surrender". Is that unfair on Imoen, sure, but when has that ever stopped the Cowled Wizards? Him getting arrested is entirely on purpose and according to plan, he knows where they'll take him, and he knows that it won't contain him. On top of that, he has Boddhi for backup and the Cowled Wizards don't know a thing about her.