Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Mega-threads and Guides Party Size Discussion

You think it's just a single value but it's not.

It's mob rebalance too. For the whole game, not just the EA available stuff.

I'd rather they focus on getting the game out.

Ehm ...
Since basic premise was litteraly "just allow us to have 6 members party, warn us about that using this feature game will become unballanced and conciderably easier ... and DO NOT CHANGE ANYTHING ELSE" ...

I would dare to say its not mob rebalance too.
Its only single value ... and yes, writing one warning sign ...

I refuse to accept a larger party with the paltry difficulty of this game. You'd be steamrolling everything without a rebalance.

Just get over it.

Most likely ...
So what?

I think what I'd do in Larian's shoes, if the plan was to increase party cap up to a maximum of six, would be a two-fold effort broken into a few steps:

• Rebalance NPC stats to mirror 5E monsters list to the letter
• Slight homebrew by making their attacks a slight bit stronger (make them individually more dangerous) - Because I believe the current reasoning for the bloated HP pools etc, is because of not wanting too many enemies in a particular battlefield because of turn-based turning into a slog if too many units active at once. Consequentially, this would likely make each encounter shorter if played well, and appeal to the portion of the playerbase who already finds it too tedious, or would argue that a bigger player party would require more enemies to balance out, because they'd individually die faster.
• Still balance the game around a party of four.
• Repurpose the difficulty system from Divinity: Original Sin 2 into a balancing measure, where if the party has more than four members, increase the enemy stats by 10% and have the [Hardcore] tag on them, which in DOS2 means those enemies would only appear in higher difficulties. So yes, bigger player party would mean more enemies, but combat would be about just as long and "tedious" as it is now, except for more enemies but generally dies faster / fewer turns.

It's been a thought in the back of my mind, and I think that's the solution I'd settle with personally.

I still have not heard 1 solution to the 4 player multiplayer issue with Max 4 party size. More than anything else, if they don't increase party size to 6, Multiplayer with 4 people is severely limited and you can't enjoy all aspects of the game.

And every time someone says, "You have SO many people in your party already," I just wanna laugh. 4 people is OH so many. [Sarcasm] Come on.

Sounds like Composer and I are on roughly the same page.

Option

1. 4 party = everything as is for you "Please don't change the game" folks.

2. 6 party = D&D 5e stats and rules and XP rewards.

Slight homebrew is usually necessary. Totally get that. Especially boss monsters. What fun is there if you don't throw a nasty homebrew boss in here and there. Phase Spider Matriarch is perfect example. Don't mind her having special powers. Teleport around, spitting poison. That's good for her. Not for her minions.

The best argument for 4 member parties staying as is so far smh 🤦🏻‍♂️ lol.
"So what?"
Obviously they just want to feel some type of control over how other players who they'd never meet or play with enjoy their day to day lives.
That's basically it, from the gist of it.

I see a valid counter argument for every argument about why every single person on the planet should play a 4 member team vs. Solo, duo, trios, 5 or 6 members being on a team for those who wants it.

Which issue is that? Do you mean lacking Origin Characters? Because on full release, as I said earlier, you can have a party with nothing but Origin characters, so the limit here is "but the game works the same for MP and any aspect of MP, as it does for SP"?


So you want this to be more like 5e, but when you're presented with a table that has a total of 5 players, including a DM, it's broken. From this, I postulate that you believe that any table that doesn't have 7 players isn't playing proper DnD? You say that the game is already balanced for a party of 6, and my experience tells me that a party of 4 already breaks some of the encounters, by trivializing them. My first tutorial run after this update, I cleared the first encounter after picking up Lae'zel with just my rogue, and a bow. I got a sneak attack on each of the Imps, because they didn't see me kill their buddies. Lae'zel and Us never entered combat. Why would I need a party of 6? Even if I'm playing MP, and one of them pulls a Leroy Jenkins, a party of 4 would still be overkill. So that encounter definitely isn't "balanced for 6 players", right? Yet, this is the claim you make to support this requested feature.

On one hand, you want Intellect Devourers to be more powerful, ignoring the stream where Sven literally got owned by them, and on the other, you complain that those same imps are already wounded. Why? They've been fighting Intellect Devourers and Mindflayers, shouldn't they be wounded? The evidence is plain to see, just by walking into the room, and looting all the bodies laying around. I have to wonder, as well, if anyone has actually had to reload after that first imp encounter because they got owned the first time? I'm sure that, if they had, they'd be all for increasing the party size to make it easier to survive that, right? It makes sense to me, and it's not like I haven't seen similar arguments in other places.

...and here, we have a major disconnect. Isn't one of the abilities of a Phase Spider that they can "teleport around"?


Source

It's mighty nice of you to concede that a Phase Spider can do what they're designed to do. The spitting is homebrew, according to this source, but the phasing in and out of the Material Plane is a bonus action, called Ethereal Jaunt. Why do I, a player that hasn't touched TT since 4e know this, but you, a self professed DM, don't?

If I have 4 players, I literally can't take a single origin character in my party. Period. They refuse.

Therefore:

1. No Lae'zel interrogation of Zorru
2. No Lae'zel at Gith Patrol option
3. No Wyll at windmill
4. No Shadowheart reveal
5. No Wyll with Spike
6. No real chances for increasing relationships with origin characters
7. No origin interaction at all except at camp, and it's very limited

6 member party size allows for 2 other companions, thus allowing for all of these things.

And in single player mode, I would have more companion interaction and dialogues outside of camp without constantly having to switch characters in and out.

You misunderstand. When I say it is balanced for 6, I mean IF they actually used D&D 5e monster stats and not the nerfed version we currently have.

4 party max is balanced right now only because they nerfed almost every monster they've used in the game.

If they un-nerfed, party of 6 would be perfect and party of 4 would be doomed.

Look, the suggestion I am trying to make is simple:

Difficulty Option 1: Exactly as the game is now. Recommended for Party Size 4.

Difficulty Option 2: True Core D&D rules and monster states. Recommended for Party Size 6.

Then allow players to choose. Do you want Party Size 4 or 6. Your choice.

Phase Spiders fold or phase into the Ethereal Plane. Then they move foot for foot up to their opponents as if invisible ninjas. Then they fold back and attack, remaining for one round in the material plane because it takes a bonus action to fold in and out.

They do not port across 500 feet and spit poison in a single round. There's a difference...and especially don't spit poison.

For the love of anything that is, isnt or even might be holy ...
What dont you understand about that "giving monsters DnD stats" means practicaly recreate every single NPC over again from scratch? (except models) -_-

I would be happy with the party of 4 + a merc. That being said I still prefer a party of atleast 5.

Here. Example of how the Intellect Devourer battle should go on the beach with proper D&D 5e rules and stats, 4 Players + Shadowheart for a party of 5. All at level 1 still.

Initiative = Shadowheart rolled 20 total, then Lynari 18, Intellect Devourer 2 (ID2) 17, Diadell 16, Vel 13, Drogyn 3, ID1 3, and ID3 3.

Shadowheart keeps her distance and rolls a 20 with her Guiding Bolt. Hit. 15 Damage off of ID1. It had 22 HP total to begin with. It now has 7 HP remaining.

Lynari is a drow wizard and casts Magic Missile at ID1. Rolls 3d4, does 6 damage. ID1 has 1 HP left.

ID2 uses Dash and runs 80 feet, moving up to Drogyn who is towards the front.

Diadell, a wood elf Rogue, moves up and attacks ID2 with her two shortswords. Sneak Attack proper rules = Advantage is not necessary if an ally is within 5 feet of the target. Since Drogyn is there, she gets to use Sneak Attack if she hits. First roll 1. Critical Miss. Second roll 14+5=19. Hit. 1d6 damage = 4, but ID2 has Resistance to Piercing and Slashing weapons. Half damage. Diadell only does 2 points off. ID2 had 25 HP. It now has 23.

Vel is a half elf Druid. He casts Entangle and effects an area that captures both ID1 and ID3 in it. Both must make Strength checks against Vel's Spell DC or be ensnared/restrained for up to 10 rounds. Each round, a successful check could free them. Vel's DC is only 12. ID1 rolls a 1. ID3 rolls a 4. They both fail and are restrained.

Drogyn is a half-orc barbarian. He attacks ID2 with his greatsword and rolls a 4+5=9. Miss. He needed a 12.

ID1 rolls to break free of the Entangle spell. Rolls a Natural 20 and succeeds. That cost an Action. It can now only move 40, but because of difficult terrain (the Entangle spell area), it cannot move fast enough to get up to the adventurers.

ID3 rolls to break free of the Entangle spell. Rolls a 10-2=8. (Strength is only 6, which is a -2 bonus). It fails and can't move.

Round 2. Shadowheart casts Guiding Bolt again on ID2. She rolls a 9+3=12. Hit. She rolls 4d6 and does 10 damage. It still has 13 HP.

Lynari casts Magic Missile again. She hurls 1 at ID1 and the other 2 at ID2. She does 1 point of damage to ID1, killing it. She does 4 to ID2. It has 9 left.

ID2 attacks Drogyn. Here is how an Intellect Devourer should behave. First, attacks with claws. Rolls a 2+4=6. Miss. Has Multiattack, so it can attack with claws and Devour Intellect in the same turn. Uses Devour Intellect on Drogyn. He must make a DC 12 Intelligence saving throw or take 2d10 psychic damage. He rolls a 9+0=9. Failure. DM rolls 2d10 and only gets 3. He's lucky. He had 15. He now has 12 HP. But that's not all. The DM also rolls 3d6. If the total equals or exceeds Drogyn's Intelligence score of 10, that score is reduced to 0. The target is stunned until it regains at least 1 point of Intelligence. DM rolls a 12. Drogyn is out of the fight. His Intelligence is now 0.

Diadell's turn. She attacks twice, once with each shortsword. She rolls a 2 and 4. Miss both times. Vel runs up and attacks ID2 with his spear. He rolls 6+3=9. Miss.

ID3 rolls a 14-2=12 and finally breaks free of the Entangle spell. It moves through difficult terrain, unable to reach the heroes.

Round 3. Shadowheart has no spell slots left. She pulls out her crossbow as a free action and fires at ID2. 11+3=14. Hit. 1d8+1 damage, she rolls a 7+1=8, but ID2 has Resistance. Half damage. She only actually deals 4 HP off. It has 5 HP remaining.

Lynari casts Firebolt. Natural 20. 2d10 damage (using extra d10 because of Critical Hit). She rolls a 9 total. ID2 dies in a fiery ball of death.

Diadell sheaths her swords and falls back 30 feet. She pulls out her bow and fires. This is all 1 Free Action. She hits with a Natural 20. 2d6 damage. 6+3=9. No Sneak Attack because no advantage. Resistance means half damage. ID3 loses 5 HP. It had 20. It now has 15.

Vel has no attack to use that won't bring the creature closer to him and the others, so he falls back.

ID3 uses Dash to move 80 feet, but is unable to get close to the remaining heroes because they moved further away.

Round 4. Shadowheart fires her crossbow again. 11+3=14. Hit. 3+1=4 divided by 2 (Resistance) = 2. It has 13 remaining.

Lynari casts Firebolt again. She only rolls a 4 to hit. Miss.

Diadell rolls for her bow and misses with a 2.

Each of them moved 30 feet further away to escape.

Vel risks his life to keep ID3 away from the others. He runs 30 feet and uses Thorn Whip. He rolls a 1. Critical Miss.

ID3 takes the bait and charges him. It attacks with claws. 4+4=8. Miss. It uses Devour Intellect. Vel rolls an 18+1=19 to resist and succeeds. He only needed a 12. He takes no damage.

Round 5. Shadowheart fires again with 11+3=14. She does 6+1=7 damage divided by 2 = 4. It has 9 remaining. She moves another 30 feet away to hopefully keep it at a distance.

Lynari casts Firebolt. 16+4=20. Hit. 8 damage. ID3 only has 1 HP remaining.

Diadell fires her bow. Natural 20. 2d6. She rolls a 6. Resistance reduces it to 3. That is enough to kill it.

Party gains 270 XP each. From the Imp fights during the Prologue, they received 600 XP during the first fight divided by 5 (including Lae'zel) = 120 XP each. After meeting Shadowheart, they had a party of 6. They faced another group of 2 Imps and a Hellsboar on the bridge. Each imp was 200 XP and Hellsboar was 100. So that was 300 XP total. Then they faced a second group of the same for another 300 XP total. Divided by 6, that was another 100 XP each. So, by the end of the Prologue, they had 120+100=220 XP. The DM then awarded them 50 XP for completing the Prologue for a total of 270 XP. They needed 300 XP to level up.

So, they were able to level up after the Intellect Devourer fight, having a total of 540 XP.

Notice how this fight was not so tough with a party of 4 + Shadowheart. They still lost a man who would now only recover during a Long Rest; thus the Long Rest would be suggested by the game at that point because you have a fallen companion who wouldn't recover until after the Long Rest from Devour Intellect. Thus, it makes sense to do a Long Rest Tutorial at that point especially if that battle didn't go as well as this one did.

First, what part of this fight here couldn't be done in a video game? Anything?

Second, THAT is how Intellect Devourers should act and how tough they really are.

Third, tell me that the game wasn't designed with a party size of 5+ based on this scenario above. The ONLY reason it works for a Party Size 4 at all (and ESPECIALLY for just 1 MC and Shadowheart) is because they not only reduced each of the ID's to like 10-12 HP, but they removed Resistance and Multiattack and took away their Devour Intellect and Body Thief abilities.

This is why I'm suggesting:

1. Option for Party Size 6. This Option allows 4 Player Multiplayer games to have their 4 Custom Characters and Shadowheart, thus giving them a better chance of surviving this fight.
2. Option for Core D&D 5e Rules Difficulty so that when you play 4 Player Multiplayer + Shadowheart, it is a challenging and rewarding experience instead of an absolute breeze that is lame and almost pointless. It also gives the Intellect Devourers their proper stats and signature attacks so that they are actual Intellect Devourers.
3. Option for Players to be able to create up to 4 Custom Characters even in Single Player Mode so that they could play with the Core D&D 5e Rules Difficulty from the beginning of the game and not be totally wiped out by fighting 3 Intellect Devourers with only 1 MC and Shadowheart.

The party size in D&D depends on the quest nothing more. A party of 4 is standard it simply depends on the size of the campaign. It doesn't matter to me either way. Party size of 6 would make an already bad party pathing system an absolute nightmare. Unless Larian make the party pathing work a party of 6 is not a good idea imo.

Honestly if they cannot get it working in the engine in their two previous games I think the chances are low they will fix it in this one. Man chaining and unchaining, wibble here and there....no thanks.

Now that is an argument I can agree with. If they don't fix the crappy movement mechanics, 6 would make the game worse. You are right.

But I'm fighting for them to fix both.

Has anyone tried this? I'm thinking of giving it a go and was just wondering.

https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGat...se_the_party_size_limit_in_3_minutes_or/

Its frustrating that it's described there as like one 1 line of code to change the number from 4 to something higher, and still they can't make it an options toggle in the game settings?

I can't recall playing a FR computer game with a party of 8 since like Eye of the Beholder heheh. It could be so epic!

If you get it working take some screens shots. I'd be curious to see how it looks in the UI. I still don't want to have to download a mod for this though, when I'd rather it just be built into the game settings.

Didn't work for me. Not sure if I just did something wrong, but whatever. Interestingly, I found it and changed it to 6 or 8, but when I loaded the game up, they still said I was full up.

Oh well.

Unfortunately