Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Please return the ability to eat food

If I play chess, and someone changes the rules so pawns can now move in any direction, and rooks can now move diagonally, and kings can now move any number of squares, am I still playing chess?

That said, if you say to the person you are playing against, "But those are just optional rules. You don't HAVE to play it that way. I am, but you don't have to. It's up to you if you want to challenge yourself that way or not."

Do you think the other player is going to not use the new rules when the entire game is now designed around the new rules?

Food as it was dumbs down the game because it's both an incredibly common resource and one that worked as the equivalent of a minor healing potion. It's pretty straight forward.

I'll ignore the rest of your post because i'm frankly not interested in a faux moral discussion, but i will say though that words like gatekeeping would probably still mean something if people stopped abusing them whenever they lack sound arguments.

Ragnarok, you made my day! I've seen you pick appart so many posts on this forum, wishing the whole time it could happen to me some day. Now that it has, I feel like I truly belong here.

A few rapid fire responses : I didn't know Superman has frost breath, that guy seems kinda OP; I hate when people complain inconsistently, and I wish they would settle on one opinion before they came to us with their problems; I agree that the resting system stretches verisimilitude, and that verisimilitude is a great word; I always imagined eating a goodberry was like biting into a cherry tomato, releasing a stream of invigorating juice and 1d4 health points.

Jokes aside, something you said here (and elsewhere) deserves deeper examination.


There's a game design truism that players will do whatever it takes to win and then blame the game if what they had to do wasn't fun. From thegamer.com : https://www.thegamer.com/players-optimize-fun-out-of-games/

Mark Rosewater, head designer for Magic the Gathering, explains it better than I ever could during his 2016 GDC talk. (Timestamp 38:27)


Ragnarok, your position as I understand it is that in this 60€ game with which I expect to have fun, food is both all over the place and the most efficient use of my bonus actions, but I shouldn't use it because it's a game design trap? Asking other players to ignore gameplay aspects they don't like is asking them to find the fun in the game. That's the designer's job.

Fun is subjective, sure, but that's why games have a lead designer. They decide what's fun, the same way an author decides what to write. When I read a book, I expect the author to give me only the good chapters. When I play a game, I expect the designers to have made the easiest way to win also the most fun way to play.

Comparing chess to dnd is apples and oranges. Chess has a set of rules where you HAVE to play that way or else you can't play the game. In DnD the rules are there as a guide. If not a guide and you HAVE to play 5e the way it is, then homebrew rules would not exist.

Don't be condescending. If you dislike something, that is your opinion but DO NOT come into threads talking down to people because you disagree.

It is not that far-fetched. There are flavours that you can change freely - chess should not be black/white, you can use other colours (this is what Dms change in DnD). It will not change the game. But if you are changing the fundamental rules, you have another game.
There are core mechanics in DnD that no DM will ever change. Rest system and action economy are at the very heart of the system. You change one thing - the whole system falls apart. Food eliminates healing and rest, breaks the rule of Bonus Action, makes some spells useless, changes encounter levels.

With that addition, you literally bring checker's rules into the chess game. Systems are incompatible - it's either DOS or DnD, together they do not work. Once again, Larian did not say "we are using our homebrew variation of DnD", no. What was promised is 5e, and 5e people expect.

Is RPGs purpose is to simulate life in a fantasy world. If you can eat an entire rack of ribs in less than 3 seconds and be healed more than a magic potion, that's broken.

Wich means 4 Goodberries should make enough resources for our 4 member party to Long Rest ...
Have you seen anyone (else than me :D) complaining about that?

Once again ... immersion only when it suits us.

There is as much reasons as there is people who did that ...
Also, as far as i know, there is no rule that forbids playing uneffectively ...

We could also ask why waste Action for Truestrike ...
Or why waste spellslot for Prayer of Healing, when we have Short Rest ...

The option is just there, for you to use ...
Its not Larians (not even ours) job to find out why you want to use it.
That is basic definition of option.

Nah ... it was stated many times, but never even once explained.

Like for example what?

- As far as i know, you have limited amount of Short Rests, and they are tied to much more resources than just HP ... so that is not an option, if you just wish to heal some minor wounds.
- There is not any "free full heal after every combat" ... so obviously, non existent mechanic will probably not an option.

That is the thing, "make sense and would even be more convenient" ... that litteraly fits to mechanic that was allready there.

They said to you its immersion breaking and illogical ...

[sarcasm]
To have food and actualy being able to eat it to provide your body needed energy and nutrition so it can regenerate ... such incredible nonsence, where did you even get such twisted fantasy?

While on the other hand ... having food, that magicaly dissapears during the night when you click on your bedroll, and having all your wounds healed by themselves ...
Now that is immersion! I can litteraly taste that realistic feeling. :3
[/sarcasm]

Nah, thats being selfish a*****e ...
*Tiefling Woman pointing her finger to the sky and twisting it* ... "There is plenty of us around here."

The deal actualy was "the game will be BASED ON 5e rules" ...
Not "tha game will be litteral transcription of 5e rules 1:1".

So, in other words "5e rules with some changes" ... as Swen multiple times tells us in every PFH, in their opinion tabletop rules dont translate to Videogame properly, so some changes are litteraly needed.

Yup ... sadly even DM can submit to pressure of its players, if that group is large, or loud enough.

And that is exactly what happened here ... except it was few hundert (i doubt it honestly, but maybe thousands) out of millions of players ... so basicaly around 1%, probably even less.
Just saying so its clear wich situation happened here.

So there should be no changes in rules?
So in order to actualy play BG-3 we should get back infinite long rests, healing by food during combat, AoE effects from cantrips, and all other stuff that was changed or removed since the EA started? :P

I think not.

Cute ...
How often do you play Chess in single player mode and i dont mean here against computer, or against yourself ... in pure singleplayer, meaning there is just you and your figues, few individual NPCs and nobody else?
Or, just to have it covered all ... have you ever played Chess in co-op multiplayer? I wonder how that looks.

That is why your examples are irellevant pal.

The problem is that game is not "designed around the new rules" ... if it would, you would be forced to use them, the game would be nearly or litteraly impossible to play without using them.
But you are not ...

Also, we are still talking here about Singleplayer, or co-op Multiplayer ... since as far as i know, BG-3 dont offer option to play "against other player".

What can i say except:

----

Anyway im glad i will have someone who will actualy read my post.

Oh yes, Superman is totally OP, even for superhero standards ... that is one of reasons why his previous comics were allways boring for me, (basicaly Superman comes, superman saves ... no matter what was the problem, somehow he manage even if that would mean to break litteraly every law of physics that are there ... the bright example is his ability to "chatch falling plane" by its underbelly ) lately they started to explore oter side of his power and i must say that his character starts to feel quite interesting to me.

It is not a great word as non-native english speaker (and most people would say im not even speaker in any other way) i really hate long words.

Interesting idea with that goodberry.

I didnt need Mark Rosewater to tell me that ...
Im aware just from my own experience here on this forum.

The fact that i know its happening dont change that im litteraly unable to understand such behaviour tho.
I dont wish to claim that im more mature than those people, even tho there is no other word fully expressing what i have in mind, when i say that ... so take it with reserve ...
But i also had my time when i was younger ... time when all i cared about was to beat the game, no matter what ... so i played with cheats, mods, trainers, guydes (not those that tells you what are you suppose to focus to be effective ... but those that told you litteraly step by step how to beat every single puzzle in game, where to find best gear, how to beat certain bosses, etc.) ...
But as time passed, i find one day that its not fun anymore ... so since that day i play games "by rules" and i enjoy them ... if there is (and there allways is some, so this is more like matter of if i notice ) some option to exploit the system, i usualy save the game ... try it, have my fun, then load and continue properly.

It might seem like argument for accepting DnD rules for BG-3, but actualy its not.
When you want your serious game, you are allways able ...
When you want to just get in and make a mess, you should also be able ... after all, its your 60€ and it should be your ( certainly not "other forum users" ) decision what you wish to do with them. :P

I was member for Bloodlines 2 forum, while that was still active ... and one of most cotroverse topic that was there mentioned was the fact that this game supposedly should have implemented option for people to skip certain missions that could trigger them ...
People was furious about it and i dont really see why? If anyone wish to spend 90€ for clicking 50 times to "skip" button and then watch final credits ... i dare to say its his decision.

Nah ... i shouldnt use it, bcs i find it stupid, immersive breaking and rulebreaking.
Or at least those are arguments that was most used here.

The same story is with Barrels ...
- I have option to blow a Barrel and kill the enemy by that ...
- I also have option to ignore a Barrel and go fight the enemy regulary ...
- I want to fight enemy regulary, since that is what i like, that is what i wish to do and that is what i believe is right thing to do, unlike the other option, wich i despise ...
>> And so i go and blow a Barrel, bcs its "more effective way to do that" ...

Seriously where is litteraly ANYTHING logical in such behaviour?

Well, not exactly ... since those players clain they allready have their fun ...

Only existence of those options is ruining it to them ... wich can be easily fixed by ignoring them ... you refuse to use it, therefore final effect is exactly the same as if that would not be possible at all.

Thats is where we disagree ...

In my opinion:
Designer's job is to presume what will be fun for me and give me options to have it ... the more options, the better chance he will hit the right spot.
And my job is to explore those options and use those, that will give me fun i wanted.

Exactly ...
And the same expect all those other people, who have different taste.

The only difference here is that they dont need to ruin your fun so they can have theirs ...
Kinda sad, isnt it?

This is getting embarassing.

SInce I never used eating food for healing (I never even knew, it existed) how much were you able to heal? Someone mentioned as much as a normal healing potion - is that true? That would be very overpowered imo.

Since I am seeing some people wanting strict 5e rules and ONLY 5e rules. Let's take a look at the D&D Player Handbook, on page 185 section FOOD AND WATER. It states:

"Characters who don't eat or drink suffer effects of exhaustion. Exhaustion caused by lack of food and water can't be removed until the character eats and drinks the full required amount."

I know I mentioned eating food to replenish health either during or after combat, to which some are like "NOOOOO" but according to D&D we need to consume food and water or our character get's exhausted. Thereby, technically what I said isn't entirely wrong or dumb. It may not be for combat but you still need to consume food and water.

I direct you to my last post.

When it was available and I used it, the health regained depended on what type of food you ate. Not all food healed the same. An apple gave you about a quarter of your health back and a potato have you, I believe about half.

In video game perspective ...
Changing Black/White to Red/Green is simmilar to download different skins ... the game looks different, but its fundamentaly the same.

Changing rules would mean creating own monsters, own spells, own rules ...

Do you claim this isnt happening?
In that case, feel free to read litteraly everything or anything on this paige:
https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/5e_Homebrew

Only Sith deals with absolutes ...
Also this is not true, personaly i know a DM that is changing a lot of core rules (including option for us to create our own spells, curently i play such session for few months and its great!) ... so, sory but your argument is invalid.

I can imagine what people would say "in that case its no longer DnD" ... well, so what?
You can call it "based on 5e" ... coincidentally exactly the wording that was used in advertising BG-3.

And we are affraid of change, arent we?

You know those rules you are defending so hard are at least 5th version? That allone implies the fact that there allready was some changes in the past.
Usualy its called evolution.

Can you please provide me the source?
I would like to finaly see it ... i mean people claim this for last year im here ... so far nobody was able to provide it. O_o
Should be easy if they actualy promised that, no?

+1

Oh wow - that much? That makes healing classes and healing potions/scrolls obsolete imo.

Nah ... it was not so much ...
Or i remember that incorectly.

As far as i know, usualy it healed the same as healing potion ... meaning probably 2d4 (as far as i know, it was never showed anywhere what healing potential wich food have, not in tooltip, maybe in combat log, i never searched for it back then) ...
But there was some more heavy foods as that infamous pig head, that were healing REALLY a lot ... i believe once i healed for 15 with it ...

On the other hand, you should note that such pighead, even if that healed a lot (wich means as much as potion with ideal rolls + few drops more) was aproximately 5-7 times heavier than standard healing potion ... and carry weight rules was much loosened back then than they are now (encumbrance and heavy encumbrance was not implemented yet ... so you could use full extention of your carryweight without any debuff)

So in my opinion it was certainly not more effective way to heal yourself ...
But some people are comparing just one number and ignoring everything else. :-/

You literally just stated, on two different occations, that people on the other side of your barely built fence are gatekeeping.

Having read your other thread, and having witnessed the same pattern, i do understand this is how you operate, but please, at least try not to contradict yourself every other post even when you revert to moral talk and behavioral advise.

Of course, you could just say you want healing food regardless of rules and logic simply because it makes the game easier and that's fun for you, probably wouldn't have required you to pull out the rulebook and draw some wonky paralles between food as a source of sustenance and food as a source of literal mending, and surely would have made for a better argument, but i realize being right is more glamorous and shit.

If it was the only reason, then sure. That said an RPG, a story driven medium, should probably care more about things making sense, then let's say: DOOM. And with the world like DnD we already have something as convenient as magic to cover for "gamey" stuff - like healing potions, resurrect and spells, which make for some of the most fun interactions mechanically, but are unrealistic. Food - however - I am not aware of food in DnD having a magical properties of healing people. And fiction hangs on internal consistency. Food healing both fails from narrative perspective, and theming perspective (food isn't the most intuative explanation for items that restore HP). And there is alreay in-universe items that provide their functionality - healing potions. So what's the point of food providing healing?

Larian makes short rest too weak? Sure. There should be more healing potions to buy. Sure. What's the point of making food into healing potions?

+1

D&D is a class-based system. Clerics, Paladins, Druids, and to a lesser extent Bards are the healers. If everyone can simply eat food mid-combat to heal, this steps on these classes' roles. Healing potions are rare and much more expensive than food (RAW, an item of food is a couple coppers, and a basic healing potion is 50 gp: like 1000x more expensive) so these supplement instead of replacing healer class abilities.

RAW it costs a 1st-level spell slot to cast Goodberry, and each goodberry takes an action to eat and only heals 1hp (increased to 1d4 in BG3 and maybe a bonus action idk). There is no situation in which eating an apple found in a barrel should cost an action - let alone a bonus action - and heal a comparable amount or more. To say nothing of eating a whole pig's head on a turn.
Thisjust spits on abilities such as Goodberry, Cure Light Wounds, Lay on Hands, Healing Word, Potions of Healing, Action Surge, and more.