Originally Posted by GM4Him
Around 1358 DR through 1367 DR, Hellriders numbered approximately 2000 women and men and around 1372 DR, their number was given as 200 mounted warriors.

This needs some behind-the-scenes context: When developing 3rd ed, WotC made the decision to make the populace numbers smaller than they had been in 2nd edition (1367 is when 2nd ed takes place, 1372 is the 3rd ed time). This meant that every organisation, city, country, well everything pretty much, seems to have had a mayor population drop between 1367 and 1372 if you don't take the retcon into account.


Originally Posted by JandK
Originally Posted by Dexai
Elturgard was formed in the 15th century. Elturel was older. Elturgard is formed when Elturel and it's Hellriders begin to take other towns and societies in the Heartlands under it's "guard", which starts

From your link:
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In the late 15th century DR, it was the capital of the realm of Elturgard
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By the late 1430s DR, through a variety of excuses, Elturel had laid claim to the lands of its neighbors, placing them within "Elturel's Guard" as they called it, making itself a petty regional power

That in turn only happened because of the fall of Scornubel as a major trading hub due to the Spellplague, which occured in 1385.

I see it as the Hellriders being around already, which they were. They're coming from Elturel, as mentioned.

So we have this notice written by someone essentially saying, "Hey, there are these guys riding around. They call themselves the Hellriders, and they're speading the message of a place called Elturgard, which I've never heard of, and I don't acknowledge."

To me, that means the idea of holy Elturgard was around, but wasn't officially acknowledged past the lips of a few militant riders. Some years later, the kingdom would become official on maps.

Basically, it's all plausible stuff from the year 1371. There's no need to dispute the date that Moonhaven fell.

The dated Dark Journal of Ilyn Toth is all that's needed to establish the year.

I think it's better to just say "it's an oversight" than to rationalise like that.


Optimistically Apocalyptic