Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback AI Smarter Autopathing

When I have my teammates following me up or down the ladders, they often jump off which causes considerable damage. I think it might be good to have the AI autopath via the ladders unless commanded not to.

Bump

This is the chain system fault, as only the selected character has a designated space on the map, and the other 3 are just headless chickens trying to fit next to it at a designated distance.
Losing the useless chain system would solve the headless chicken problem.

I've had this happen also. But I'd use the word rarely, as opposed to often.

Is it really happening all that often or do some of these comments edge toward hyperbole?

I ask because I sometimes feel like I'm playing a completely different game than other people here.

It's possible that you are playing a completely different game, or rather that your style of command and control is one that fits well with the current movement design and implementation, whereas the OPs style may fit rather less well. For example, do you find yourself playing at Max zoom-out predominantly in ISO for everything, or a more driving camera zoomed-in orientation? How often do you play in TB mode for non com movement? How often do you change the "leader" or select a different character when moving around in non com? Are you constantly unchaining when you do that? Do you stealth ahead with the leader, and leave the others behind until you're ready? Are you playing as 1 player in control of the entire party of 4 at once, or in MP where each player only controls 1 additional character? How reliant are you on scouting ahead with the camera in WASD and at what angle of view? I can see a lot of different factors that might contribute to one person having a really irritating experience, while another can't see what the big deal is, just based on how they handle casual movement in non com.

The cam and movement controls are right now a hybrid between an FPS scheme 'eye on the horizon' and more RTS scheme 'eye in the sky', with neither being quite fully realized to match traditional expectations there. It may also come down to how habituated you are to what was present in Divinity regarding all this, or if you're coming to the game from somewhere else. A genuine gripe from one player might seem more hyperbolic to another in that case. When focusing on this issue, some people have focused more on the base controls and means of selection, others more on the AI pathing knock-on element. The movement mechanic thread is replete with such back and forths. If people didn't find it frustrating, it probably wouldn't come up as much, but they do and so it does. I think Larian should seek to provide a couple alt schemes to handle the different expectations and satisfy a broader base. Like in a drop down menu in the options settings. They could have a mode called "Default" which looks like the current. Then a mode called "Driving" or "POV" which works more like an FPS (e.g. WASD for movement, and the rest of the party falls in line behind the selected PC). Finally a mode called "Classic" where the camera is locked in ISO, and the command and control is unchained by default, with an RTS style selection and command (e.g. controlling more than 1 character at the same time.) The last is what I'd want, but also seems the hardest to achieve given what they've already cooked up. I'd settle for the second option at this point, but would definitely still consider that settling hehe

I don't have companions jumping off high cliffs and causing themselves damage. I don't have companions constantly running into lava and dying.

I don't think that's a matter of what angle I keep my camera at. I just click for my main character to go somewhere, and the others follow. Without jumping off high cliffs and hurting themselves or running into lava.

As such, I wonder. Why are other people having this problem? I understand it happening a couple times on accident, which can be frustrating, but to say it's a common experience? An "often" experience?

This is not a difference in play style. This is either hyperbole or it's a platform issue.

It's possible, though I think most feedback is for play on the PC, as Stadia users tend to preface that in their remarks. Stadia patches seem to lag behind PC patches by like a month, so perhaps the pathing is better there? I can't speak to it. It's also possible that players are conflating the current experience with a previous one. For example patch 5 introduced many pathing woes for me compared to patch 4. After the Imp fight on the Nauitloid Lae'zel, Us or the PC would attempt to climb down the blocks and then glitch out and freeze until reloading. The same would occur after the initial battle at the Gate, when the transition from combat to non com would occur and the party members would scramble and get stuck. Or perhaps you just do less jumping around than others, or are more deliberate and exact when issuing commands? Its hard to know, but I don't think the people complaining are being facetious or intentionally hyberbolic. Perhaps the experience stands out more due to the annoyance and is compounded somewhat for that reason, but I don't doubt that it's occuring, cause I've seen it happen quite frequently. So much so that I can barely play and enjoy the game at all, and consider the party movement issue a major barrier to entry.

The issues are more pronounced when elevation or ladders or jumps are involved, also misty step. Or maybe that's what you meant by platform issue? Like interacting with the vertical platforms in-game? In any case it's been pretty rough for a while. Sometimes pathing seems to get better in the next patch other times it's a step backwards. In general though I've seen a concensus view that has more people tripping over the chain dynamic than singing its praises, almost always in the context of non com movement, or when the fight is over and the various party members go back into autopilot.

Seems like easy solution ...
Have any alternative in mind?

I have thought about it, and the only one i have come with was companions simply following exact path as our MC, with few steppes distance. :-/
I mean it would be effective ... but it would look horribly.

No, I meant platforms like Stadia, Steam, Mac.

For me, I started with Patch 3. It was almost unplayable back then because the companion characters kept getting stuck. After Patch 4, everything cleared up, and it's been mostly fine since. As of now, I have some issues, but they're definitely rare. For the most part, the pathing plays okay.

Yeah I mean there is also the strong possibility that after such long periods of elapsed time, that you also get a sort of stacking effect, like hitting the same walls again, which may lend itself to more hyperbolic reactions in general. So like at patch 1 it definitely seemed fairly horrid to me, but then that was launch so you make a lot of allowances. Patch 2 was fairly hot on the heels. Launch was week was Oct 6, 2020 and Patch 2 came out what early November, which I think set up the expectation that things might move at a pretty steady clip. Like perhaps with hotfixes rolling out on the daily, and patches coming out every few weeks. Patch 3 landed in Dec? (I can't even remember lol) with the first savegame branching. The top line of the patchnotes read "improved character follow movement" the third and fourth lines read "All characters now correctly stop running when forced turn-based mode is activated" and "Companions will now jump to follow the main player character." To give some sense of where it was at lol.

Towards the very end of the patch notes we got the line "Jumping down a hole now teleports any following characters as well" which has been like an internal metaphor for me about EA expectations ever since hehe. No new class or much really on the pathing front in my view in that patch, except for that now Us would clear the first jump on the Nautiloid without having to be controlled and commanded directly. Some of the surface effects and such were dialed back though and jump did seem a bit improved. That's when expectations were tempered and hardened a bit probably, and I think also when the bitterest mammoth threads began to pop up on these boards like mushrooms in centipede or something. Patch 4 with the Druid didn't drop till what late Feb 2021, with a longer intervening period. Somewhere in there, I can't recall, is when the unchain all toggle was added but not announced. Patch 5 was what like early July 2021, with Minthara's new hair and some chaos? Some long runs between patches there. I had nearly forgotten about the game. Another shorter interval of 3 months to get to patch 6 and the Sorcerer. But in that time nothing much has been changed for the command and control aspect of the game. Like I'm more used to it now, and have a couple keybind hacks that make it somewhat simpler to manage for me, but it's still frustrating.

I can envision a situation like the OP described. Battle ends, the selected Character is on the ground floor, or maybe jumped or misty stepped somewhere further afield during combat. Combat ends, without remaining in initiative (or TB hourglass) so all the other characters scramble to "catch up." Instead of backtracking to walk down the ladder, or climb down along a sensible path, Shadowheart just jumps from the rafters along the shortest distance and falls prone in a pool of acid. Lae'zel starts to climb down the ladder, but then the Selected PC starts moving somewhere else, and so she starts reclimbing the ladder again to close the shortest distance. Meanwhile Astarion is body blocked by Lae'zel from beginning his descent on the ladder and so decides to just dance in place until everything sorts itself out. Maybe everything would have gone smooth, but then the player selected another character at the wrong time, and everyone changed direction and started running or jumping the wrong way at that point. I've seen it happen so many times in EA in different places that it very easy for me to imagine a situation like the OP describes. This occurrence probably is rarer than what might be suggested by people's posts to the boards, that the negative experience becomes outsized (like rolling a 1 when it really mattered) but the fact that it sticks with the player as a real annoyance so much so that they'd log onto the Larian home boards to raise the issue, speaks to how frustrating it can be. Like especially if the rest of the battle was hard fought and rather rewarding, but it ended on that sour note. That's what tends to stick with the player.

The first thing they could do which has been suggested elsewhere is to always remain in initiative post combat for a grace period. It's been mentioned usually in the context of a downed party member or somebody bleeding out. But a more general application would be to have exiting turn based mode following combat manual by default. Effectively a pause. Also to have all party members unchained by default when a combat concludes, and manually rechained only when the player prompts this. That right there would cut down on half the mishaps that are commonly mentioned. Like someone jumping or doubling back over a trap or surface precisely at the moment when such an AI decision has the most potential to end disastrously hehe. It really wouldn't shore up the issues I have with general movement, but it would be an improvement over the current.

I did say bump before but I'm a simple chap who should have advised better so rather than go into detail with eloquent words I will simply state that it is a strategy game, chains are meant to be broken so break them and position your party before an encounter where it would best suit them and chain up only on free map movement with no danger, then move them one by one together afterwards. With a party why would you not separate and get the upper hand with a few or three hiding and get a free move anyway with each? this why I prefer trying solo runs as I can zerg the game with a party using sneak and click turn based, abuse invis pots/scrolls. Funniest thing in the game so far was dropping an ivis pot, slapping the Hag then using spare move on surprise to drop a strength potion and push her in the hole I laughed my left manboob off about that on about third day of release.Sorry Larian "Hide" PSS Swen I better get an honour mode, and do remember we are European so it has OU xxxx

Mostly because it is incredibly lengthy and tedious process. Switching between characters isn’t reliable, orders can be abandoned midway through execution, putting everyone in stealth requires to select on character by one and put the to stealth (and there is no way I found of doing it quickly without something messing up).