Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Mega-threads and Guides BG3 Party Movement Mechanic

It works fine for me. Not to a limited extent, but fine, as in it works well without a problem. It doesn't require a struggle.

I don't agree that you have an objective, scientific scale that measures "genuinely atrocious." Rather, that's just your subjective opinion, and other opinions differ.

Measuring "# of clicks to perform tasks" is a fairly objective metric. E.g., starting with a fully grouped party and trying to split it into 2 groups, then move them to different locations.

Marquee Select
Click and drag to highlight 2 characters. Click location you want them to move
Click and drag to highlight other 2 characters. Click location.
4 clicks (with 2 drags)

Larian Chain
Drag one character out of the chain. Drag another character out of the chain and to that first character
Click location to move the 2 characters you already have selected.
Click a character in the other group. Click location.
5 steps, including 2 (de)chains which are finnicky and sometimes fail to work properly. So let's call it 5+ steps.

Even the most basic "move a single character" is more steps with a chain. "Click character -> move them" in Marquee select vs "de-chain -> click character -> move them" in Larian Chain.

Edit: The importance you place on this metric is subjective, sure. But I'd be extremely surprised if someone expressed the opinion that "more clicks for the same result is better." So at very best, this feature of Larian Chain is only a minor negative.

I'm certainly in the it's atrocious camp.

When I play I only have my party chained when I am moving in areas I know have been cleared of enemies/traps. Otherwise I move my party individually which is more work but means I don't have to put up with the ridiculous antics that often occur when chained. As well for the same reason I never ascend/descend ladders, ledges, or walls whilst chained. So essentially I don't actually use the chain system. One key "group/ungroup" has been a godsend.

No, it just doesn't.
It doesn't even matter how much you can lower your standards to be "just fine with it". It works *measurably* poorly regardless of your acceptance of it.

It's something that goes beyond personal opinions: when an UI/control scheme requires multiple additional intermediate steps to achieve the same results, it's objectively bad at its job.

The amount of clicks to achieve something is a cornerstone in interface design. Keep it as low as possible or you have failed, just as Larian have failed with their movement mechanics. It's most certainly not a subjective opinion, it's not buzzwords or hyperbole. It's fact.

haha, this is getting ridiculous. I'm sorry you don't like it, but do I really have to point out that you can't tell me how it works for me? This is absurd. Speak for yourself, please. I'll speak for me. Thank you.

Now. When I say it doesn't require a struggle and it works great for me... that's entirely what I mean. It works well. I love it. I don't want them to change a thing about it.


It takes more time and energy to read the click analysis in an earlier post than it takes to just play the game using the interface.

The system works fine. It's intuitive. It gives the proper amount of control and the "cost of clicks" is negligible.

If you want to tell me that it's "atrocious" in your opinion, fine. Who am I to tell you what your opinion is? But just so you know, when you say that, what I hear is that we have different opinions. Which is a part of life.

But please stop trying to sell opinion as fact. It makes it difficult to have a conversation and appraise the feedback in a serious way.

What a fucking ridiculous argument.

As if the two things had any correlation to begin with.

Unchain other characters to select and move a single character is definitely intuitive

Having to select all your party members one-by-one to put your entire party in or out of stealth?
Textbook intuitive!

And a paragon of efficiency too, I guess.

I'm fairly certain some people are Larian employees out here defending Larian's decisions and mechanics and such.

If my selected character simply looks in a different direction the entire team 8 time out of 10 decide to,

1) Run round in circles
2) Climb a ladder
3) Jump off or up something
4) set off a trap I am trying to disarm
5) Wiggle about looking all over the joint

On occasion one character will stop dead somewhere because,

1) There is fire that requires a slight detour
2) Astarion sees a puddle
3) two people try and climb a ladder at the same time
4) They get stuck in dialouge with an NPC for some reason
5) They are required to jump but cannot figure out the path

This having the secondary consequence of either running your entire team back to the "walt disney" (frozen solid) character or pissing about with the chanining shite in the hope it works and doesn't send everyone auto-pathing to each other, getting stuck again......pfft

When chaining/unchaining or reordering the team,

1) It will refuse to move the 1st position character unless you totally unchain and rechain but sometime this requires many attempts
2) Moving a character from the 3rd position to first is practically impossible without doing the chain dance.
so on and so forth.

I have read hundreds experiencing these ^^^^^ issues on these forums, discord and reddit, HUNDREDS. So at some point "opinion" ceases being relevant and the word "objective" can be used. As a statement of fact this system and the auto-pathing is abysmal.

I don't understand how a very select few are having no issues when the vast majority of players are reporting the exact same issues?

If you thought it was getting ridiculous before lol. This thread has been very charged from it's inception and it's author definitely framed it that way at the outset, but for some reason it was selected as the catch-all Megathread to discuss everything movement and selection related on these boards. It just kept absorbing other threads like a gelatinous cube. This whole forums section was basically created as an excuse to get rid of this thread, the 4v6 thread and the RTWP thread, so they could be moved out of the Feedback section where they were being bumped constantly for months and apparently taking up too much attention there.

To me it is curious and kind of refreshing to hear from an actual apologist for the game's current movement mechanic, since as I mentioned earlier, I think you're the first one to chime in here without equivocation or caveat, to express a genuine preference, even love, for the BG3 party movement controls and the chain. I disagree completely with your assessment, but it's a nice change of pace hehe.

It's even more fascinating, because contrary to what I might expect, we seem to be roughly similar in age and previous gaming experience (just judging from your feedback in other threads), such that I can't blame this one on a generational divide or take it down to someone just being habituated by DOS systems with no other point of reference for comparison.

To me its a bit like being given a left handed pair of scissors by a left handed person, and hearing about how intuitive and ergonomic they are. Then I try to use them with my right hand, being right handed, and know instantly that this is all wrong and a terrible design for anyone like me. Then trying to make the case for something more universal or ambidextrous in the design, in the hopes of not being forced to use these whack scissors all day long lol.

It's cool that you enjoy playing the game and find it comfortable, and that you'd rather just play it than read arguments here about extraneous clicks and whatnot, when they don't seem to affect your enjoyment and aren't really on your radar. For me it's the exact opposite situation, in that I'd rather just play the game and enjoy it, but because it's controls are so onerous and so awful, I just can't do that. I'm locked out of the thing and can't enjoy it. So instead I'm here trying to raise the red flags so that hopefully they take note and actually do something about it. As it stands I would never have purchased this game had I known how little development there would be on this issue over the course of a year, and I'd certainly never buy another Larian game if they just let it ride like this. I'm not generally a detractor, but I can't imagine myself having very nice things to say about Larian as a developer or what they've done with the legacy of my all time favorite CRPG franchise if they stay the course on this one. When someone says something like 'sorry, if you don't like it, but they really shouldn't change anything or try to accommodate you cause that'd just be a waste of resources, the "sorry" part feels a bit disingenuous lol.

I know these forums are full of sometimes abrasive personalities and that it's easy to spiral downward with a quickness here. Turning up the volume and resorting to ridicule is not always the most helpful dynamic, to be sure, and if you see that being directed at you apologies for the general climate here. That said, I don't consider myself to be exaggerating in the least when I say I find the 'movement mechanic' in BG3 to be extraordinarily annoying, just like I don't take you to be exaggerating when you say you love it. Were the positions reversed, and the game worked perfectly well for me in that regard, but not for you, it's entirely possible I wouldn't even be here cause I'd be buried so deep in the game I'd have no use for these forums. I mean I clocked probably 2000 hours in BG1 in the period after its initial release (and many more since) and never once felt the need to join random boards to gripe about anything. I was entirely satisfied and happy there to just enjoy what was on offer and praise it when the odd occasion might arise. Of course BG3 is characterized as Early Access, and I don't have the same experience here, so I spend an inordinate amount of time on these boards trying to get a foot in the door and raise the issues where I see them.

This one, the party movement scheme and the chain (and more than that even, the single character movement and camera control) are major barriers to my enjoyment of the game. Overshadows everything else about the game for me. Sure I could just quit and write it off, I certainly don't need to be reminded of the sunk cost fallacy here, I'm definitely living it heheh, but long as there is the possibility of some redress I hold out hope. Also I don't think you're a Larian employee trying to defend the game. I don't question your rationality or ability to assess your own opinion. I can't speak for anyone else here, and wouldn't want to be grouped into a faction with anyone. I appreciate your participation and your feedback, even though I completely disagree with it on this issue. Though I'm sure someone else's remarks will probably grab the spotlight, and this reply will soon be buried by others. That's just how it seems to work here, unfortunately. But I'd love to hear the spirited defense of the current system from someone who truly enjoys it, if only so that others might tune their rebuttals in a way that's more constructive.

This. This right here. All of it. 100%. Especially the slight turn crap. I slightly turn and everyone repositions. Boom! Trap spring or clicking on accident on one of the party members or someone decides to climb down a cliff, or JUMP INTO LAVA AT GRYMFORGE. Bye bye SH. You stupidly jumped into lava because I turned around.

This doesn't even make sense. I don't unchain three characters to move a single character.

I swipe one character to the right, unchaining that character. Now I'm only moving that character. Another way to solely move one character is to put the character in stealth while the others aren't. That works too.

Regardless, swiping to the right, not all that difficult, surprisingly easy.


Sigh. Cognitively, it's like talking to a wall. Seriously.


I challenge you. Stream yourself playing for one hour on Youtube. Don't try to make mistakes happen, just play naturally and normally. We'll count the real issues and see how close your "8 out of 10" estimate measures up.

It's unbelievable how many times I've been called disingenuous on this forum while statements like this are floating around. Clear exaggeration, in my opinion, and if I'm wrong, by all means: prove it. Stream yourself playing on Youtube for one hour. Let's see the nightmare you describe live.


I believe you have seen a lot of complaints. From previous patches. You're conflating all of the complaints from Patch 1 till today, leaning on that shaky body of evidence like a crutch.

Look around the threads these days. It's the same usual suspects making the same series of snide remarks.



Thank you. I respect your opinion, and I appreciate that you respect mine in return.

To touch on a few of the things you mentioned, yes I'd say our gaming history is similar.

Regarding the current mechanic, it's like the back of your hand once you get used to it. Sometimes I'll swipe two characters together and have the other two apart. Sometimes I'll keep one separate by keeping it in stealth. I take my time with things; I appreciate being able to move the camera about. I keep in mind which characters I have chained together. In short, I pay attention. Something I suspect a few more people could try doing before coming to the forums and coating their words in venom.

To date, I've played an enormous number of hours of this game. In fact, I was happy just playing the game without coming to the forum to explain my opinions. Until recently, when the Stadia patch didn't update at the same time as the Steam patch. That finally convinced me to join the discussion here so I could ask about the update.

Then I got a firsthand glimpse of some of the local characters monopolizing the conversation. I heard some of the ideas being pushed. And in the politest way possible to say this, I wasn't impressed. In fact, I was appalled. So. I decided to stick around for a little while, to offer what feedback I could to the community.

I think this game is wonderful. The writing is exceptional. (And not to be cruel, but I'm amazed at the number of people who can barely put together a paragraph who feel cavalier enough to assure everyone else that the writing is awful.)

I'd say it's easily the best game I've played since Troika's 2003 Temple of Elemental Evil, and really, I'd consider this a modern day improvement of that very game, in terms of sound, visual appeal, and overall mechanic.

I know. It is like talking to a wall.

No. It's more like this:

American's Got Talent. Contestant gets up in front of the judges and sings like a dying harpy. Judges say, "Stop. Sorry. You're bad."

Contestant yells at the judges saying they're wrong and they think they're awesome and they don't need more vocal training, and what do the judges know anyway.

If all the judges are telling someone they are bad, wouldn't that kinda mean that they're bad?

Now, that said, your opinion is that the movement mechanics are not bad. Fine. I get it. But if lots and lots of people are frustrated with it, and some even saying it's totally ruining the game for them, and it's SO bad that they want Larian to fix it and revamp it before they do anything else, and they're not alone, shouldn't Larian take that feedback seriously and do something like overhaul their movement mechanics?

We're talking die hard fans here. We're not talking people just out here complaining and trolling just for the sake of trolling. We genuinely want the game to be better. Just because you don't have a problem with the system doesn't mean that they shouldn't fix it. A lot of other people are struggling with it. So why fight us on it?

Sounds like a pathing issue of follower AI, rather than UI issues. No matter how you interact with UX what kind of UX design it would have, if followers walk into dangerous areas on their own through following, well... Pathing issue. I'd rather fix that, than having to move four characters individually to circumvent it, no matter how intuitive or efficient it may be.

Go take a break please. You sound agitated.

It definitely makes me curious about the Stadia experience and whether that is indeed different. One of the main issues I've noted elsewhere (which is for sure a UI issue for me, independent of the chain or anything having to do with movement per se) is that the cursor is not responsive when interacting with the various UI elements. All the UI elements, not just the portraits used in chaining or unchaining, but for actions, inventory, the hotbar, spellcasting etc. Basically everything that isn't a direct selection on the main game/environment screen itself. Then other aspects of the movement system intrude onto this experience too and exacerbate the frustration, as it seems to require several more clicks and interactions with the UI than I'd think would be necessary. The quick swipe left or right you've described, isn't what occurs for me. The click intensity is too low, the drag apart or together fails if not timed correctly. More often I have to attempt the same thing twice to succeed, and then when I do, something else will hang or wig out or require a cancelation or a double click, click into gamescreen, or some targeting snafu there.

If neglecting the chain entirely, then of course many random things will happen as a result of pathing woes, but managing the chain itself is so cumbersome that it rarely feels worth it, as all this is generally occurring during non combat situations or just basic exploration. For example the cancel action or selection in order to initiate new action or selection, the need to drag, and again just the camera needing to be managed while all this is going on, and then I'm just puzzled by it. Like couldn't it just be WASD for movement then with an orbital cam? I'm not sure that any of this would necessarily translate, if you were to just watch me stream the gameplay, except that it might appear sometimes more erratic or that the camera might not be in the position you might expect, or that the play is maybe just slower and inelegant. Though I guess you might hear some groaning or a few rage quits that might indicate where a frustration was occurring, but otherwise it might appear smooth, even though it's definitely not lol. Nothing about it is very zen for me. I can't tune out the UI and simply use it the way I'd prefer, it's always in the forefront and something I'm battling against rather than feeling like it's working with me, or for me hehe.

Maybe I should have bought the game on Stadia, if the experience there is smoother. I also played TOEE when it released and BG3 reminded me of it in some ways, though I think Troika did a much better job of implementing the casual movement, as I never had any issues like I do with BG3 in that game. I'd still prefer this game to look and behave more like BG1/2 than TOEE, but I've accepted the turn based character and overriding 3d cinematic aspect are pretty immovable now, though for that I'd still rather have a driving mode for exploration like DA in that case. It would not be my preference for a Baldur's Gate III, but it would at least allow me to engage with most of the content more readily. I have fewer issues with movement within combat, it's not the sort of RTS control scheme I'd like for a tactical game but I can make it do what it needs to do for the most part. I could settle there pretty easily if the other basic issues I have with non com and exploration and selection were handled like in a standard driving view.

I use Stadia over a browser. No controller, just my mouse.

The chaining is smooth as butter for me. It doesn't cost a series of clicks or anything. I swipe right, and I'm on the character I selected. I swipe left, and that character is chained back in and still selected.

I'm not clicking and unclicking and reclicking, nothing like that.

*

I remember having some issues in earlier patches when I was still playing over Steam. (I bought the game twice, once on Steam and once on Stadia.) Back then I had a delay, as if the mouse didn't want to click onto the picture. It wouldn't "grab" it easily, if you know what I mean, and that was frustrating.

But I noticed those issues got smoother as patches released, and now it's like second nature for me on Stadia over my browser. It grabs it every time and the slide is as smooth and simple as can be.

*

And I suspect that it will continue to get more and more smooth as it's optimized. Patch after patch, hotfix after hotfix, all the way until full release.

I actualy like this example ...
There is lot pf peole (and Tuco) on this forum who obviously thinks their opinion is supperior to any other and therefore others should be at least not taken seriously or rather ignored copletely ...
But not many of them admits it so openly!

+1 for honesty!
From one lowly and insignificant contestant to allmighty judge.