Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback This doesn't feel like a Baldur's Gate game (or D&D)

This is exactly the sense I've had ever since the BG3 trailer dropped. Dragons and 'splosions etc. from the very start make for a cool-looking cinematic, no doubt. However, this approach of starting the game at "AMAZING FACTOR 11 !!!!1!!1!" completely flies in the face of BG1's and 2's carefully crafted story arcs - and IMO good writing in general - which start your adventures in a very personal, grounded way, and gradually ratchet up the emotional investment and tension as the story and your in-game relationships and knowledge organically evolve. The quality and pacing of the writing I've seen since has not in any way allayed my initial disappointment in this regard. I really do want BG3 to succeed, but significant gripes about clunky UI and cheesy gameplay aside, it's for this reason I doubt I'll ever "feel" it's truly a masterpiece of personal storytelling in the mold of its predecessors. An above average and fun game, sure, but it pales in comparison to its admittedly intimidating legacy.

The hag and Omeluum, the mind flayer give you incites as to why. Oh there's a good reason.

I do think there's a middle ground. Sure. I think it could feel more like D&D and a BG sequel, but to totally rip it up at this stage is a bit much, IMO. What drew me in most was the story. Every character, even every goblin, has a story. That's incredible. And there are SO many paths you could take. I've never played a game with so much replayability. I certainly never played 1 and 2 this much. I enjoyed them, but they were nothing like this.

And I see plenty of elements to tie it in to the originals, and we haven't even gotten to the good stuff. As a writer, you need an adventure hook. It is good to start with such high level excitement. Draws people in. Then they do bring it down a notch as you explore on the beach and stuff and get to meeting people and learning about where you are and what's happening in the region.

That said, there are still a lot of things they could do, like make monsters actually like how they're supposed to be and they need to have some additional things like day/ night and maybe some roaming animals and consistency with story elements like when was Moonhaven really destroyed and what the flip cause Halsin and crew to be gone for over a month and a half when the goblin camp is 10 minutes away. But overall, if you read the books and find the clues, you start really piecing together a LOT of things. There is way more to this game than many realize. WAY more.

We already have an explanation : it is infused with "strange netherese magic" that puts it in stasis. Classic Larian plot device, don't expect any intricacies.

From there, it likely goes to godlike power in a domination plot orchestrated by Absolute/Shar/random god.

I think people are being a bit too harsh about the tadpole plot. In my opinion it's a perfectly neutral plot device to start a story with. A thing that should be acting one way is acting in a different way for some unknown reason. That's a classic impetus for a story. Is it complex? No, and I actually don't think it should be. It's simple and complexity can be added as the story goes on and we understand more of what's going on. Do I think the plot point is executed well? I don't, but I think it would only require some minore changes to produce a version I AM perfectl happy with. And the tadpoles also are different from the Source Collars of D:OS2. Sure the first act revolves around removing both, but here, it's the source of your power and putting you in active danger, while in D:OS2 the collar is containing your power and is given to you because you're on a prison island so of course you're going to get something to reduce your powers.

As for where the plot goes, I do think it'll involve godlike power, etc. I'm not against it, it'll come down execution.

Let's just take a step back.

BG1. Plot point = You're a demigod, child of murder. Embrace it of resist. Your choice. Fight others with said heritage.
BG2. Plot point = You're a demigod, child of murder. Others want to steal it. Fight for your life or die. Claim your father's heritage and become a god or reject it. Fight others with said heritage. Your choice.
BG3. Plot point = You're infected by a godlike mind flayer parasite that will likely turn you into a god. Others want to claim the power for themselves. You have a choice. Resist or claim your new godlike powers. Fight others with said heritage.

Well when you put it like that…sounds like a BG game to me! Lol

I feel like I've been trying to say this over and over again.

As I said, it isn't a good explanation. It is especially poor because the tadpoles aren't really in stasis, there is a symbiotic relationship forming (e.g., tadpole powers). There is no explanation for why this might be occurring.

It is Act 1. If this was the end of the game, and we didn't have an answer, I'd totally agree with you.

However, what we do know is that there is powerful Sharran/ Netherese Shadow Magic involved which is keeping it from transforming you by normal means.

This is no different than Bhaalspawn. With the Bhaalspawn, you were infused by the powerful seed of a god. Here, you are infused with the powerful seed of a mind flayer that is special and godlike. Just as the Bhaalspawn was slowly transforming into the Slayer, so we are being transformed into some sort of special weapon that the Absolute and others want to use.

It is honestly not much different at all. The only difference is that they haven't fully explained what the differences are between the special tadpole we have and the tadpoles of other True Souls. But it's only Act 1. They didn't explain why we were having those strange visions in BG1 until later in the story also. We just started having all sorts of weird murder/death visions and dreams. Nothing made sense until later.

Give Larian a break on this. I agree there are other discrepencies that don't make sense in the game, but this major plot point, I don't think, is one of them.

I think they upped their game - I feel there was much more thought and care put into BG3 story, characters and writing then D:OS1&2 combined. It is a different studio, making a different game with different priorities. I suspect it is less about talented writers but how much imput they have - do they get to dictate content, world structure or do they have to tie up loose ends after other teams do their work.


Parasites and power that comes with it is clearly BG3 analogy of Bhaal Spawn heritige. Still, one must do some extreme reductions to make those game feel like they have anything to do with each other.

They are pretty different. Narratively, for one, although you got dreams and special powers over the course of BG I, BG I is not a game in which you really have to face the consequences of your heritage. That doesn't start to happen until BGII. In BG I the struggle is against your half-brother Saraevok who is trying to murder you, but the narrative of 'fight what you are, embrace your ancestry' is very low key. Slayer doesn't even show up until BG II.

BG III the tadpole is treated as an immediate crisis that needs to be addressed in the here and now. A near and constant danger. You will die or worse if you don't get it out asap. The entire narrative push revolves around what to do with the tadpoles.

In the ruined Selunite temple you can get a conversation where the party members will remark after talking with Minthara where the similarities are pointed out between the party and the True Souls. It's even flat-out said at the time that the Nautaloid was probably going to Moonrise and that the party would have ended up like the True Souls had it arrived.


Omelum says that killing yourself might not be enough to get rid of the tadpole, so I am inclined to say that at the moment, the tadpoles abandoning the bodies of the other true souls upon death does look like a plot hole, until/if more information becomes available.

Yeah, see. I don't think it is. Originally, only Ed's tadpole escaped the body and fled. Then, in later patches, they added massive tadpoles fleeing from dead True Souls, implying that this was a normal for True Souls. However, never once does a tadpole escape from you. Yes, indeed. Something is truly different about yours.

And again, that's why everyone, including Raphael, wants you. Something about you is different from the others. Yes, if you got to Moonrise, they might have been able to complete your "training" so to speak, and you'd have been brainwashed like other True Souls, but I think you are still definitely unique. Even if you'd made it to Moonrise, I think you'd have been only similar to other True Souls in that you'd have been brainwashed and unable to choose for yourself. I still think you'd be very powerful; moreso than the others.

Notice that Minthara and Glut and Ragzlin don't use illithid powers like Survival Instinct or Reflection or whatever. Those powers only belong to you.

Ragzlin uses the Repulsor power. Really surprised me when I saw him do it.

On the other hand you dont use illithid powers like Shield of Screams, that other Psyonic damage that have chance to cause mind control, Nere had ...
That aura Ragzlin is using ... (Aura of Leadership i believe?)
Or that buff that Minthara is giving to her minions ... (really dont remember the name :-/ )

//Edit:
Isnt that from his mace tho?

No, although his hammer's ability is similar.

I'm pretty sure he actually used the Repulsor ability and knocked me off upper walkway. It was a long battle. I had started the fight with Minthara, and it ultimately triggered Ragzlin's room.

They came out of Ragzlin's room the long way around (because apparently nobody can open a door?). So this fight happened over the spider pit area between Ragzlin and Gut.

My Tav was on the wall and Ragzlin joined him. They went to square off against each other, and I was looking forward to the fight, and then wham, Ragzlin hit me with Repulsor. And I don't mean Faithbreaker's Absolute Power ability, I mean Repulsor.

I guess it's possible I'm mistaken, but I'm pretty sure I saw what I think I saw.

Ok, ok, ok, ok... Let's just take a step back !

BG1 : You're a freacking random dude but one day your adoptive daddy told you that you have to leave your home cause... just he told you to follow.
The night you leave, damn he is killed by some random powerfull dudes and you have no other choice than run away.
You investigate to understand what's happened... or you jsut leave yoru life for a long time until you decide to visit some mines...
You discover a conspiracy to trigger war.
You investigate, investigate, investigate and investigate.
FINALLY you understand than the guy who killed your dady wanted to kill you and was the mastermind of all the plots.
You discover you was from the same temple, linked by a terrible fate.
You discover the god thing, blablabla.
You kill him in order to survive and/or to take his place.

BG2 : You awake in a prison. Your mates are imprisonned or killed.
You discover a sorcerer just stole your soul, damn !
You chase him. He kidnapped your childhood friend !
You discover she was also a god child !
You struggle against your own god nature trying to take the control.
You follow the sorcerer on earth and underground.
You fight and/or allied with his sister.
You discover the bad guy want to become a god
You follow him over his thirst for vengeance
You fight him in order to take your soul back

BG ToB : You discover some powerfull god child have decided to kill all the other to take all the god power
You put all the god kids in a castle and they get wrecked
You chase them one by one to survive and/or take all the power.
You discover the nice girl wasn't a so nice girl.
You fight her in order to survive and end this god thing for good !

BG3 : you have a thing in your mind, it can give you superpower but be carefull it could have "effect".
So it's a tadpole linked to the mindflayer and some big big big conspiracy (big ship in the sky, dragons, etc) you are going to wrecked by any means necessary cause.... plot armor. and I knew all of this after... like.... 30mn of playing BG3.
I'm sorry but, I really didn't feel interested by "who's the bad guy" because I think this "tadpole thing" is a cheap and crappy way to give epicness to a basic story (you know it's cheap when it is used to help the maincharacter to survive deathly moment... many times).
Like... O god.. headache, I'm so scared.... I might die if I used it to much or loose my mind forever !!! LeL. Wait. I feel like... it won't happened cause... plot armor.

The problem is all the plot is understandable after 3mn of game.



Btw, I played all the early the first month he was released.
So let's see what I remembered

BG3 : I fight gobelins, I fight people here and there. I saw a dragon. I visit a forest. I visit underground. I got some headaches. I did dumb fights...
Mmm... Sorry but I'm still looking for an interesting story... Wait! I got one ! Oh, no... sorry... It's just Gale trying to eat my staff while Astarian is trying to bang me while Shadowheart play tsundere and Laezel play yandere.
Damn.. my companions would fuck trees if they had holes...
I feel like it's gonna be a long long long journey...

yep I'm a little disappointed.

The reason why BG 1 and 2 simple plots worked was because you could easily be immersed and there was a strong sense of worldbuilding and verossimilitude supporting it, along with overall better writing.

When you remove that for BG3 and you reuse the same basic plot, it feels dull.

Plus, altering the biology of tadpoles and vampire spawns with the excuse of "god power" is an extremely cheap plot device (again, lack of verossimilitude). Throw some Absolute cult cliche, some cartoonish Rag and Devil and the story only goes downhill.

And I am not even accounting for the 20 years evolution in video-game writing or the difference in budget.


Technologically, yes, but, narratively, no. BG3 is a little more serious than DOS2 in tone, but the writing is not that different. In many cases, I liked DOS 2 companions backstory better (or maybe they were more original at that time). Wyll and Astarion backstory are a variation of Lohse's and Astarion shares the same arrogance as Red Prince.

These characters literally have nothing in common.
On this logic, you might as well try to match any character in the games to another.

Yes I do feel as though BG3 is a direct spinoff of DOS2. You're in a flying ship, travelling through dimensions (planes), the very gods themselves are interested in level 1 characters, each companion already has a long, detailed history, the players characters are the "chosen ones", you get stranded on a tropical beach and your companions don't trust you much at first, there are ancient ruins directly nearby... the list seems to go on and on. The writing is very much the same.

You guys make me never want to play DOS. Sometimes I consider it, but then I read something like this.

Sigh.