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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2021
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"a bit much " ? What is supposed to happen in acts 2-4 ? Do we fight actual gods in the last act, having left behind measly mindflayers, dragons, beholders and so on ?
What would be wrong with a bit of an excitement curve ? Why not slowly ease us into it ?
I know nothing I type on here will change anything about the game, they already have my money and if there are people who enjoy BG3 - good for them.
I can only repeat how disappointed I am. There are 3 Acts. Look, I get that nothing anyone says will get you to slow your roll but maybe just consider taking a deep cleansing breathe, go for a long walk with your doggo, and maybe center yourself with some Yoga and then come back and play the game once it releases and - then - judge. I mean I'll probably be too busy playing the game to read it, but still...somebody will.
Blackheifer
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addict
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addict
Joined: Jun 2019
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It's weird. I keep hearing about how I'm playing a game that started so epic that it can't be working. While I'm playing a game that's working.
If your heart longs for a smaller story right now with a simpler approach, I get it. The type of story some of you are describing appeals to me also. Start off in a hamlet, learn to be amazed all over again by the sight of an otherworldly elf.
Which is fine. All of that is fine.
Except this isn't that. Which is fine also. This doesn't have to be that. There's a compelling narrative in this story that's pushing the plot forward.
For all the talk about how this *feels* different, it is. DnD has changed over the decades. Massively. I started off playing Ad&d years ago. There were no tieflings. No dragonborn. They didn't even have sorcerers, much less wild magic sorcerers or dragon blood sorcerers with scales.
I loved the Dalelands and Cormyr. I must've read the original box set a thousand times over or more. I imagined the ruins of Myth Drannor with devils crawling through the remnants. And when I think of that, or when I think of the city of Phlan being teleported to a cavern in a plot initiated by Bane... well... plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose, the more that changes, the more it's the same thing.
There's nothing wrong with fighting a minotaur at level four. Or fighting a hag at level three. It's the story that counts. The challenge, the choice, the goal, the want and need. All the rest is an arbitrary number, a CR someone made up some time back. Who cares? You only think a Mind Flayer is overpowered because you think a Mind Flayer is overpowered.
Why not live in a world where Mind Flayers are like humans, in that some are tougher and others are weaker? Or, and this is possible also, consider that your character never really beat a Mind Flayer, not one at full strength. Just like your character didn't really defeat an Adamantine Golem. Rather, it happened to be an interesting setting where a giant hammer came down and crushed the creation.
That's not uninteresting. If you were telling a story about a game you were in and that happened, it would be pretty cool. You were at a giant forge, you managed to get the golem under the hammer and wham. It's not that you beat the golem in a fair fight. You were in an interesting circumstance, and you used it to your advantage in a clever way.
Anyway, my point is that it's okay to hunger for a smaller story. And it's also okay to enjoy an epic story. You can even enjoy both if you want. Neither is inherently bad. I like the way you think.
DRAGON FIRE-AND DOOM Dragons? Splendid things, lad-so long as ye look upon them only in tapestries, or in the masks worn at revels, or from about three realms off...
Astragarl Hornwood, Mage of Elembar - Year of the Tusk
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Dec 2020
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"a bit much " ? What is supposed to happen in acts 2-4 ? Do we fight actual gods in the last act, having left behind measly mindflayers, dragons, beholders and so on ?
What would be wrong with a bit of an excitement curve ? Why not slowly ease us into it ?
I know nothing I type on here will change anything about the game, they already have my money and if there are people who enjoy BG3 - good for them.
I can only repeat how disappointed I am. You don't fight the Mindflayer or the dragon, that might come later. Your enemies are mostly goblins, hostile wildlife and later on some bosses, a hag among them. Nothing too over the top. The harder enemies come later, when you are at the end of EA and levelled up, but dragons and Mindflayer are not among them.
"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."
Doctor Who
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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..Which is fair. Pretty much every RPG out there introduces you to the primary antagonist[s] in the tutorial section.
Sarevok in Candlekeep, Irenicus in his Dungeon, Alduin in Helgen, Shaun in Sanctuary Hills, Whatshisdemonface in ThatPathfinderTown, Buchanan in Colorado Springs, ThatSoulstealingdude in Pillars of Eternity...
Fear my wrath, for it is great indeed.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Jun 2019
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..Which is fair. Pretty much every RPG out there introduces you to the primary antagonist[s] in the tutorial section.
Sarevok in Candlekeep, Irenicus in his Dungeon, Alduin in Helgen, Shaun in Sanctuary Hills, Whatshisdemonface in ThatPathfinderTown, Buchanan in Colorado Springs, ThatSoulstealingdude in Pillars of Eternity... Colorado Springs  hour from my front door. Nice
DRAGON FIRE-AND DOOM Dragons? Splendid things, lad-so long as ye look upon them only in tapestries, or in the masks worn at revels, or from about three realms off...
Astragarl Hornwood, Mage of Elembar - Year of the Tusk
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Mar 2021
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I like that we are instantly thrust into a world with real danger we can learn to navigate to stay alive. I would hate a game that started in a beginner region where nothing can really hurt you. There should be threats and encounters that show you you are weak and not yet ready.
And realistically I think this opening (an escaped prisoner freed during a 3rd party attack on our captor) is virtually the same as BG2, so claiming it isn't in line with the franchise seems dubious. Are you really saying you want LESS Dragons in your Dungeon and Dragons?
Last edited by Gwmort; 01/08/23 07:20 PM.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2020
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And realistically I think this opening (an escaped prisoner freed during a 3rd party attack on our captor) is virtually the same as BG2, so claiming it isn't in line with the franchise seems dubious. Are you really saying you want LESS Dragons in your Dungeon and Dragons? One need to point out, that BG2 was a sequel, and we were already playing a pretty battle hardened character, not a level1 noobie. I have also heard claims that enemies in the tutorial that we fight and kill with ease are nerfed high level enemy. I do think that on narrative level opening of BG3 is a lot - alien ship, alien dragon mounting hunters, eye infecting parasites - a lot of unrelatable alien stuff. I think you could pull of a start of the game like that, but I don't think it's handled effectively in EA. It needs more horror - not in terms of gore (BG3 has enough of that already), but tension, threat, atmosphere. More importantly, I don't think the game manages to paint mindflayers as a credible threat. I think that hanging around the mindflayer at the end is a big mistep, that robs them of any mistique or danger. Even more so killing one yourself in the crashsite - sure, if is wounded, but it still doesn't help in making it feel less threatning.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2017
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Bg2. Where you start at level 10ish. The comparison makes no sense.
The intro.is so over the top. The end game better be hs fighting Ao himself and his girlfriend the Lady of Pain or it'll be a letdown.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2023
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Bg2. Where you start at level 10ish. The comparison makes no sense.
The intro.is so over the top. The end game better be hs fighting Ao himself and his girlfriend the Lady of Pain or it'll be a letdown. BG3's intro is a bit over the top, but as noted, we don't fight Mind Flayers, dragons and Cambions, we watch them fight each other.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2017
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Aye, bit I never claimed we dud. It's still silly. And, as I said, the main issue, if that's your intro, the follow up better be something even more extreme
And, no, fighting any of the Dead Three at the end would not impress me or qualify (not that they care).
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addict
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Joined: Jun 2019
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I must be the odd duck in the room, I love the Epicenes of the opening story. side note: Its not a beholder people lol, its a spectator CR3 a party of 4 this can be a challenge but not one that's out there. https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/17094-spectator
DRAGON FIRE-AND DOOM Dragons? Splendid things, lad-so long as ye look upon them only in tapestries, or in the masks worn at revels, or from about three realms off...
Astragarl Hornwood, Mage of Elembar - Year of the Tusk
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2023
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Aye, bit I never claimed we dud. It's still silly. And, as I said, the main issue, if that's your intro, the follow up better be something even more extreme
And, no, fighting any of the Dead Three at the end would not impress me or qualify (not that they care). So your beef is that since we are watching Spiderman fight Doc Ok in the intro, we better be fighting The Beyonder in our character's finale.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2017
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Yes. And, I didnt even know who the Beyonder is supposed to be, but it sounds cool. Lmao I know who Doc Octoemo and Spidey is, though.
Last edited by Volourn; 02/08/23 01:34 AM.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2020
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Bg2. Where you start at level 10ish. The comparison makes no sense.
The intro.is so over the top. The end game better be hs fighting Ao himself and his girlfriend the Lady of Pain or it'll be a letdown. BG3's intro is a bit over the top, but as noted, we don't fight Mind Flayers, dragons and Cambions, we watch them fight each other. Speak for yourself, I do in fact kill the cambion. Fun Fact, if you take him and the minions out before the reinforcements make it, the mind flayer agros and you have to deal with him too.
Back from timeout.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Apr 2022
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Bg2. Where you start at level 10ish. The comparison makes no sense.
The intro.is so over the top. The end game better be hs fighting Ao himself and his girlfriend the Lady of Pain or it'll be a letdown. BG3's intro is a bit over the top, but as noted, we don't fight Mind Flayers, dragons and Cambions, we watch them fight each other. Speak for yourself, I do in fact kill the cambion. Fun Fact, if you take him and the minions out before the reinforcements make it, the mind flayer agros and you have to deal with him too. Or one gives him the coup de grace before he is killed by the Cambions, are otherwise wasted XP. I kill my kidnapper myself! 
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2023
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Speak for yourself, I do in fact kill the cambion. Fun Fact, if you take him and the minions out before the reinforcements make it, the mind flayer agros and you have to deal with him too. The Mind Flayer just sat back and watched, eh? And how wounded is the Mind Flayer by the end? So don't say "I killed the Cambion and the Mind Flayer," say "I helped the Mind Flayer kill the Cambion and then I polished off the 90% (or whatever) dead Mind Flayer" before you break your own arm patting yourself on the back. I helped kill the Cambion once and decided it was not worth the time it takes.
Last edited by branmakmuffin; 02/08/23 06:22 AM.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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Colorado Springs hour from my front door. Nice Play Wasteland 3, it takes place all over CO with a handful of [unrecognisable] landmarks, like Denver and Aspen and so. It's a real fun game, too.
Fear my wrath, for it is great indeed.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2020
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Aye, bit I never claimed we dud. It's still silly. And, as I said, the main issue, if that's your intro, the follow up better be something even more extreme
And, no, fighting any of the Dead Three at the end would not impress me or qualify (not that they care). So your beef is that since we are watching Spiderman fight Doc Ok in the intro, we better be fighting The Beyonder in our character's finale. It's more that if unbitten Peter Parker fights Doc Ok in the intro, there is little place to go once he is bitten. Of course, intro COULD be revised for 1.0. In EA one can kill cambion without much effort. Sure, it is because he attacks mindflayer exclusively, but them not being a threat to the player is a problem. If player had to avoid getting in contact with them - that would be another matter. I have pointed it before, but cinematics really don't help. They present mindflayer as your equal with goofy tentacles, and not as a threat.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2023
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It's more that if unbitten Peter Parker fights Doc Ok in the intro, there is little place to go once he is bitten. Your implication regarding my analogy seems to be that Doctor Octopus is the epitome of Marvel villains.
Last edited by branmakmuffin; 02/08/23 10:42 AM.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2020
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It's more that if unbitten Peter Parker fights Doc Ok in the intro, there is little place to go once he is bitten. Your implication regarding my analogy seems to be that Doctor Octopus is the epitome of Marvel villains. I honestly wouldn’t know. He was the final boss in a Spider game I played.
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