Originally Posted by Rhobar121
Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
Originally Posted by GM4Him
You guys make me never want to play DOS. Sometimes I consider it, but then I read something like this.

Sigh.

Honestly, it's still a game you should play. If only because it'd give you a window into understanding why there's immense pushback in seeing anything remotely similar to DOS2 in BG3. Many fail to understand that the whole 'BG3 = DOS3' criticism isn't mean to disparage the DOS games, it's a warning to Larian that they shouldn't expect to blindly take aspects of their own series and insert it into a DnD-focused world and engine and expect it to go over well. Especially since some of the things that obviously did make it over are also the most harshly criticized parts of DOS to begin with (the toilet chain system for instance, the idea of the origin system, and the fears that we'll end up with all of our inactive party members dead at the end of act 1 like what happened in DOS2, though it looks more and more like Larian has reversed course on the latter since none of the datamining is showing any hint that it is even on the table anymore).

Beyond that, it's still a great game for what it is, even if the balancing becomes questionable about halfway into the game.

I actually like the DOS2 party members. My issue with them is that there's literally no party banter between them at all (you will not see party members talking to each other at all, they only really talk to the designated player character. They will only comment as a group and tell you what they would personally do before you make a major choice). Because of their overall lack of interaction between each other, it's a contributing factor as to why they mostly come off as selfish murderhobos as the game goes on, as they don't really get much opportunity to showcase any sort of depth.

BG3 isn't quite that much better yet, but my standards in this department are also admittedly very high, almost unrealistically so, with how lively WotR's cast of party members are. At face value, WotR's characters aren't that much different from Larian's characters, the primary difference is their party banter gives them numerous opportunities to show true depth. It's probably the only game I've ever played where one can make a convincing argument that the entire cast of party members should be judged as a complete package, instead of on an individual level.


I'm not sure there is such a big difference.
While exploring, companions in BG3 talk to each other very often, unlike WotR.
It's hard for me to consider saying literally one sentence as a conversation, as is the case in WotR, especially since many of these "conversations" are written so that they could fit more than one person.
What WotR does better is that the companions join the conversation. Only here are two things to consider.
First of all, considering the whole game is a bit unfair.
We only have less than 1/3 of the game.
Secondly, full voice acting is quite expensive so of course there will also be a more limited number of combinations.
It would be nice if companions joined conversations more often (it's much better than it was at the beginning of EA), but you shouldn't have unrealistic expectations.

For me, there's an issue that both the BG3 "wayside" banter and the Kingmaker/WotR "campside" banter share: it's between party members only. It doesn't feel like it involves my character at all, it's over my head. BG3 goes a step further and doesn't even involve you or your actions/choices at all, meaning it contributes to the feeling that Tav doesn't actually exist or matter.

I'm a bigger fan of reactions during dialogue, to me they come of as being more including, even if they technically could be reduced to still just being between two party NPCs if you pick them apart. WotR has more of those, but they're not exactly absent from BG3 either, there's for example Gale introducing himself to Shadowheart at the beginning and SH and Laessie often interjects to bicker with each other. They just feel less characterisating than WotR's ones.

When it comes to companion banter and such the game I'd hold up as an example to follow would be DA:O. It has a very strong mix of both "interjection" and "wayside" banter, the latter which will be partly shaped by your choices and sometimes be them talking about your character too.

I think it would be interesting to see more PC-NPC-NPC dialogues though. Something to make you feel more like a group and like your own character has a presence.


Optimistically Apocalyptic