Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by RutgerF
Otherwise, if 10 Duergars will decide to heal one of them together, sure it will take them all their turns in a round, but the recipient will effectively become unkillable for that time.
That is the most funny thing about this all ...
Concidering that Larian starts to agree with us (and yes im part of this group surprisingly laugh ) and set Shove and Stealth as Action instead of Bonus Action ... and (yes im supporting this idea too) they will remove Bonus Action weapon maneuvers ... what will those 10 Duergars do?
If only I could share the same optimism that you have, about what Larian will change here, if anything. I can tell you what Duergars do now, however.

First goes into Invisibility, runs towards Lae'zel and shoves her into the lava. Oh bugger - she was too far away from it, and didn't quite make it there.
No worries, second Duergar repeats the same process, and now Lae'zel successfully lands into the lava. Insta-death.

As of now, the action economy allows them to do that in a single turn, and Shove being guaranteed if executed by an unseen character doesn't improve my survivability either. If Shove will ever become a full Action, they will only have to change their tactics slightly - everyone goes to Invisibility on their first turns, then on the next come Shoves aplenty. And what countermeasures I have against invisible enemies? Bupkis. In BG2, Glitterdust worked wonders in such scenarios, but we don't have it here.

Although, strictly speaking, this isn't really the thread's subject, so next...

Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Dont be mad at me, if you have any other scenario in mind, please share ...
Even so amazing and flawless (kidding) creature like me can potentialy make misstake, so its possible that i forget something. smile
But right now ... no matter wich side im watching it ... it seems to me like throwing potion would be the most uneffective thing you could do in combat, IF at least Larian would delete that part where potions have effect if they miss ... after all, that hit chance is in fact substitute for catching roll. laugh
When your party is outnumbered like 12:4, your best option is to find a terrain chokepoint, use it as a force multiplier (same as the famous battle at Thermopylae) and concentrate on one enemy at a time (because, obviously, a Duergar with 1hp left hits just as hard as one with full hp). Current implementation of potion throwing severely disrupts this strategy, so it's not as daft as it looks.

Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
[sarcasm]
Why would i take Wizard with me, you know ... the dude that can cast almost litteraly any magic spell that is in the game, including brutally damaging spells, guaranted hit spells, AoE spells, crowd controll spells and most of them is even able to affect multiple enemies, when there is single (again litteraly, since i didnt even found second sleep potion in my last play laugh ) item that i can throw ONCE at SINGLE target and get the same result as one of those spells?
Totally useless class indeed.
You probably mean something like Fireball? A pity we won't have it for at least 2 years. Grease? Bottles are way more efficient, can be thrown by anyone, come in truckloads and don't require spell slots. Oh, and they can also be thrown much farther away!
Can't think of anything else that can be used effectively against lvl 5 enemies apart of Chromatic Orb (good, but not AoE, not really) - do you have examples?

Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Why would i take Clerict with me, you know ... the dude that can curently cast two different heals per run, can ressurect my unconcios friends, give us blessings to boost our combat capabilities, have lots and lots crowd controll, debuffing, and damaging spells ... and also can nicely work as a tank for us ... when i can simply throw a potion that can heal single target only, once per round only, while he is conscious only and wich would take the reaction from him for the rest of that round?
Totally useless class indeed.
[/sarcasm]
One little problem, however: practically all Cleric's buffs require concentration, and they can't concentrate on more than 1 spell at a time. If I find Shadowheart in a bit of a fix, and decide to put on Shield Of Faith - here goes my Bless for the rest of the party.
Also, did Larian fix it, or does Cleric still lose concentration on any surface damage, without a DC roll? I remember seeing Lae'zel rolling DC for her Shield Of Faith, but don't remember about Cleric.