Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Underdark Mysteries

So, this has been plaguing my mind for some time, and now that I'm writing up my fan fiction in this area of the game, I can't help but think about it again.

What's up with the Decrepit Village? Who lived there? When? Was it way back in 1372 when the drow fought with the Selunites? Was it more recent?

I originally thought that the deep gnomes lived there, and the duergar attacked them and took them as slaves, or maybe the drow did. But now, with Grymforge, that is not true. The deep gnomes are from Baldur's Gate, come to Grymforge for a special mission. The duergar took them as slaves after they also came to Grymforge.

The myconids obviously dwelled also along the shores, for when the duergar showed up to capture Thulla who was escaping from them, they killed a lot of myconids. Glut's circle was... um... where exactly? Was its circle also in the Decrepit Village? Was it across the lake somewhere and the duergar attacked it weeks or months earlier? When Glut talks about calling out to Spaw, it sounds like it was quite some time ago, so if the duergar were only attacking the myconids because they were trying to recapture Thulla, why did they kill Glut's circle and wipe it out previously? How long have those duergar been warring with the myconids and how long have they been in the area?

But who used to live in the village? I couldn't find anything that gave me any clues about this? Was it gnomes? Was it dwarves? Was it drow? Was it Selunites from 120 years earlier?

And how long has Blurg and Omeluum been with the myconids in the Underdark there? By the gods! They met Lenore and invited her to join the Society of Brilliance, but she hasn't been in that area for 11-12 years, and she was only there about 13-14 years ago in 1479. So have they been there in that particular Underdark area for 12+ years? Do they not go anywhere else ever? If they did, why didn't thy know that Lenore's been gone for 12 years?

And how the heck do Derryth, the dwarf lady, and her husband, get into the Underdark to pick mushrooms? We're having a hard time trying to find our way out, but they're just there, picking mushrooms, acting like they go there on a semi-regular basis to do so. Do they have some secret way in? If so, why can't we ask about it?

And why is there a Zhentarim stash in that area? How the flip do the Zhents get into that area? Is it supposed to be from their secret hideout near Waukeen's Rest? If so, that's east of the Temple of Selune, but the Temple of Selune's Underdark entrance is in the southeast corner of the Underdark map. So wouldn't that mean that the Zhent hideout is further east and wouldn't be north of the Selune Temple? And why are there minotaurs down there just roaming about? Are they purposely there to guard the Zhent stash?

And why is the phase spider lair a way into this particular area of the Underdark when it is east, also, of the temple? Yet you can drop down from the Whispering Depths into the Underdark area of the map.

And... um... the Festering Cove. It is UNDER Ebonlake and yet it has a big lake of its own, almost like an underground ocean,...with LIGHT at the end of the tunnel. A big gleaming sunlight on the horizon beyond. ???

And lastly, was the Spectator turning drow into statues back in 1372 or is that drow party recent? According to one of the documents you find, it mentions statues near the Selunite Outpost, and that was back in 1372. However, the only statues we come across are present-day drow on patrol who got attacked by the Spectator. So which is it? Has the Spectator been around for 120 years, or is he a recent addition, and did he turn people into statues back 120 years ago AND presently?

Nothing in the Underdark is making sense. Nothing.

I believe that the beach village was constructed by the gnomes. You see their mining efforts around, their bodies, their leader's journal etc. are all in the huts. Finding the secret runepowder was Wyllis(?) goal, but the BG gnomes seem to have gone to the Underdark for trade goods already. Also, it was my understanding that the Duergar raided their outpost to take them as slaves, because the Absolute is trying to get to the temple there, I don't think the gnomes found the grymforge.

The Zhent tunnels seem to go into the Underdark, perfect for smuggling I suppose, I think their exit will lead to the next area, similarly to the creche exit and the elevator.

There's an elevator at the Zhent cache that I think is supposed to go up to their hideout, not sure.

as always, distances are subjective for as long as they aren't

Okay. But what doesn't make sense to me is that the Eastern most point of the underdark map is at the Western most point of the surface map. We know of the following ways into the underdark map:

The hags lair. That's a portal, so that could work. But I wonder, has anyone tried to use featherfall to jump down through the whole in the center? If that also takes you to the underdark map, that makes no sense. The bog is pretty far to the southeast of the temple, so it would be pretty far to the southeast of the underdark map.

The whispering depths. That is certainly Southeast of the Zhent hideout and almost directly east of the temple. We know that the whispering depth runs north and south, not east and west, because just to the right of the spiders lair you can access the blacksmith shop. So there's no way that the whispering deaths stretches from the Village past the temple. But if you jump down, it just shows you gliding down into the underdark map. It doesn't show you gliding down to some place and making your way along a distance and then dropping down further etc.

The Zhent hideout? If this leads down to that secret stash, it might work, but it's a bit of a stretch also. The inn is north of the village and the temple, and The hideout entrance is west of there, but only a short ways. The underground hideout is somewhat large, so it could stretch West too that secret stash location which is north of the Temple. So I could buy that one. That actually is probably the most believable one.

Grymforge. The only way that we know of to get there is via the lift which goes up to the cursed lands. You can't travel through the cursed lands without the special lanterns.

The ruined Temple. This way it has been sealed off for 120 years.

So how is everybody getting into this difficult to get into underdark location? How does Barcus? You rescue him from the windmill, and somehow he's down there with the rest of the gnomes. Which way did he take to get in there? Why couldn't we take that way? How did the dwarf merchant get down there? How did the Hobgoblin and mind flayer get down there?

And if the gnomes settled on the shore in that decrepit Village, wouldn't they have had to pass the forge crossing by the lake just to get there? If the forge was their destination, why would they set up a village on the far shore?

See, I think the problem I'm having is that it seems like everybody else has a easy way into the underdark except you the player. It's like all these other people are able to just waltz down there and hang out and explore around and then return to the surface without a problem, but you don't really have that luxury. Oh, and by the way, neither did Aradin and his companions.

There's an elevator hidden behind a false wall in the Zhent hideout that takes you down to the underdark stash. It's a much better place to fight the Minotaurs from plus you can see how their patrol makes more sense as guards from there.

As for why the Zhents are there, aren't they the major suppliers of surface slaves and goods to the underdark now that the trade with Thay has collapsed? (because would you buy food from zombie farmers, it's a bit icky, and probably contaigous)

And how is Omeluum and Blurg impacting anything in terms of making the underdark a better place from that little cubby hole that is supposed to have no real legitimate entrance? I would expect based on their story to find them in some heavily trafficked part of the underdark. That area has virtually nothing in it. So what exactly is he feeding on when he says he feeds upon the enemies of the society?

Okay. So there are gnomes lying around by The Village. This lends credibility to them being the inhabitants of the village. But, it is called the decrepit Village. Decrepit means old and falling apart. So if they just got there from Baldur's Gate, and they just set up shop there, why is it called the decrepit Village? Why does it look like it's been there forever and it's falling apart? And actually, it looks more like an old fishing Village to me than it does a mining Village.

Like I said, that one's a bit more believable, but the problem I have with that is that the game makes a point to make it seem like the only way in or out of that area is either via the lake or through the temple. Even if that location has been kept secret, how are all of these other people getting in there? How did the gnomes get down there? How did the dwarf merchant and the Hobgoblin and the mind flayer?

I can assure you being young/new doesn't exclude you from decrepitude.

The Underdark is a big place, I think that this is an instance where just because the game only gives you so many ways to get to the Underdark and that particular slice of it, we can assume there are more, either ones we can't find or ones outside the area we're given.


I think it's also safe to assume that all the Absoluters we've met have been making it to the surface via the lantern route, so over land to the EA area, like the drow who kidnapped the Duke, Minthara and Nere


This is supported by the Halfling Zhent we find in the temple.

I don't buy it. Here's why.

Your ONLY choice to continue on is through Grymforge. Later, when given the choice to go overland, your ONLY other choice is through the cursed land. They blocked off the Risen Road so you can't go along those ways either east or west to make it clear you have literally only two ways: Cursed Land or Underdark.

That said, the road's out. How are the tieflings getting to Baldur's Gate? Hmmm...

This is just the mining village for the gnomes. There are gnome bodies all over, and books scattered about that establish this. I want to say that there's a body you can use Speak w/Dead on, but I'll have to play back through to be sure.

Also, just to note, there's an interesting sign post somewhere along the path from the village to the myconids listing different areas along with updates about what happened to them.


I believe the gnomes that weren't killed in the village were taken as slaves. Some taken to Moonrise and probably some to Grymforge, as well.

Notice, for instance, all the dead gnome slaves being kicked into the water. Any one of them could have been from the village.


Could have been anywhere, really. Personally, I imagine it was probably somewhere along the lake shore that we don't stop and actively look at. Somewhere we pass by in the boat ride. But really, I'm not sure much would be left after the circle was destroyed. Myconids don't seem to live in structures.


One of the books in the village talks about how a presence of Duergar is building up. My impression is that they destroyed Glut's circle before attacking the gnome village.


Gnomes, definitely. There are clues all over the place, dead bodies, books with information.


Maybe they come and go.

Let's say I travel to Dallas every so often, and someone asks me a question, and I think, hmm, they could probably get an answer from this person I used to know who lives nearby in Ft. Worth, and then I direct them that way... it doesn't mean I'm actively up to date on what's going on in Ft. Worth.

In other words, they probably travel about. Knowing who Lenore is isn't the same thing as keeping tabs on her. They're not Lenore's keepers, after all.

Also, just a reminder, these are characters who come out of a 5e adventure module entitled Out of the Abyss. They're not stationary characters who only exist at the myconid colony.


There are numerous ways into the Underdark that our characters don't know about. That's kind of a given. Why would we know every entrance and exit?

I also don't think everyone would be open to discuss their routes into and out of the dangerous location. It's like, "Hey merchant with valuable stuff, which way you headed after you leave?"

Another thing to point out: not all entrances and exits are available to the characters just because of the scale of the world. Your character, for example, can't go marching off to Thay. The location isn't built into the game, so there's no path for you to walk to get there. That doesn't mean no one can go to Thay.

So there are other entrances and exits. But not everyone is going to want to tell you about them, and sometimes they're not going to be available to your character because the game is only so big.


There's an illusory wall in the Zhent hideout in Waukeen's rest. It leads to an elevator that goes enters the Underdark there. It's actually one of those entrances to the Underdark in the game.


I'm looking at the surface map and the Underdark map. I don't see an issue with the locations.

(bear in mind, there's some underground movement you have go through in both locations to hit the Underdark entraces, so I'm not sure how far off the surface locations that underground movement takes you, but...)

...in general, the goblin camp is south of Waukeen's Rest on the map, and likewise, the Underdark fort location is south of the Zhent stash.


Why are there monsters in the Underdark?

A couple of minotaurs live in the area. They survive and find food. I'm not sure how much more reason I need.


You're not factoring in the movement you take underground. As far as I can tell, you're just looking at the Blighted Village, calling it east, and then questioning the entrance point.

As opposed to figuring the Blighted Village as the entrance to the whispering depths and then consider the movement therein which leads to the entrance to the Underdark. And the same holds true of the temple entrance.

In other words, you can't just hold up the surface map over the Underdark map and punch holes through them with needles to try to line it up. There's another map in between.


The Festering Cove is not directly under Ebonlake. And yes, it does have a lake of its own. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the two water sources touched one another, or at least did once upon a time.

As for the lighting issues: there are lighting issues everywhere, including the owlbear's cave. This is a known issue all over the place; it's certainly not limited to the Underdark.


I'm not sure what you're saying.

Yes, there are statues.

Yes, there is a spectator.

Yes, there is a book in the Selune Temple talking about the statues.

There is also a book in the Selune Temple talking about how the spectator couldn't have made the statues, so it's questioning what exactly did.

As far as the statues we find... what makes you think those are "present-day" drow? You're talking about the drow with the memory shard that's fading because so much time has passed? These are not modern day drow at all, not even close.


I think the Underdark makes a lot more sense than you're giving it credit for.

Personally, I think there are some things that could be touched up, but I can't say I agree with your appraisal.

They probably go *around* the cursed land. Because their destination is Baldur's Gate, not Moonrise Towers.

As opposed to us. Our destination is Moonrise Towers. It wouldn't help us get to Moonrise Towers if we followed the path around Moonrise Towers.

I've also been under the impression that the lantern is what let's them cross the cursed land.

We're given a few exits of the EA area, the broken bridge area, that bridge is the regular road to BG I think (hence the flaming fist), which leads to the creche, the mountain pass, the risen road, the Zhentarim tunnel, and the Underdark. I'm not sure when the Risen Road collapse happened but even if it did occur before the caravan travelled from Elturel, it would only have made their journey more difficult not impossible.

I'm also operating under the assumption all the overland routes will lead to the Moonrise area.

and just for some schadenfreude here's that map they've given us. I really hope it isn't all we'll get in the game, unless they really go ham on making an extensive BG


All those buildings are in our EA area, but it's not exactly easy to gauge scale. Also looking at a map of of the Chionthar from BG to Elturel I found online doesn't help either, namely mountains with which to have a pass through. You'll know more about the geography than me I reckon, so if there are mountains around tell me. I know the Sundering or what have you has also altered the topography so that could also be it (though the map I have is from around the time of the game), even if it doesn't totally make sense next to a river.

Hmmm. Nah. See. It's a problem with consistency.

The game makes a point of emphasizing that Aradin and his crew were in the area to try to find the Nightsong by reaching the Underdark in that area. The only way down is the temple.

In the temple and the Selune Outpost, the game emphasizes that the clerics had to seal the temple to prevent the Drow from reaching the surface because, it was the only way up.

Halsin says that Ketheric couldn't use his tower at Grymforge because the way was sealed up by the Selunites. So the only other way was via the cursed lands.

The game emphasizes that you can't leave the area by boat, because they were all destroyed. You can't go east because the pass was collapsed. You can't take the road because the bridge was destroyed by the dragon. The only ways that you can literally go are Underdark or Mountain Pass.

But this is contradicted by the Tieflings leaving for Baldur's regardless as if they magically have another way to get there that we don't. Same with the Flaming Fist. If there's another way, why aren't we presented with it? They go out of their way to tell us we can't go those ways for obvious reasons only to let NPCs go those ways.

And the same for the Underdark. They make it a point to say the only way to go is across the lake, but everyone else has seemingly lots of ways In and out. Mysterious ways.

And decrepit literally means elderly and infirm or worn out or ruined because of age or neglect.

So how is it both decrepit and recently inhabited by gnomes at the same time?

I think the next map will encompass an area similar or larger than what we get now, so it will have both a creche area a road to BG area and a Cursed Land area, our travelling the mountain pass won't put us immediately in danger, us or the Tieflings.


I'm not following you about the Underdark area, even if you don't think there are other ways to get in and out of the Underdark area not explicitly given us, why is traveling on the lake impossible for everyone else? Those docks were probably built by the gnomes, hence their mining outpost there, it's probably how they got there.

age or neglect...so neglect then. Decrepit just means frail, unkempt, it's often used to describe aged things but it can also be used to describe things with the qualities of aged things.

edit: Another way of looking at it, everyone else is doing a hexcrawl while we are on...roads, so that we don't get lost of course...

The Underdark extends over a huge area. In fact, there are countless entrances to the higher caves, not all of them by far being well known.
Another thing is the difference between the entrance through which several people (or smaller creatures) are able to get through, and the passage large enough for an army, or at least a large squad, to pass through it.

The collapsed road is most likely the road to Elturel.
The fact that the bridge has collapsed does not mean that this is the only road to BG, it is quite likely that there are other paths, although less traveled.
Remember that the area in which we can move is limited.
We know, for example, that there is a fishing village in the area, or at least its remnants.
Just because we can't go somewhere doesn't mean that place doesn't exist in the world.
Another thing is that we do not care about the road to baldurs gate at all. We have a different goal. Our team's goal is to get to Moonrise at all costs, which at the moment is surrounded by a dark curse (most likely Shar's work). It is extremely unlikely that anyone who has no choice would ever come close to this place, and even less likely that they would have survived.
Due to the fact that the curse is more than 100 years old, it also means that all traveled roads leading to the city certainly avoid Moonrise in a very wide arc.

I also do not know if you remember currently in EA there are two land roads, each of which causes an exit from the available area, which means that we travel to a different location, which means that during the journey we pass a large piece of land on which there may be many things and which will not be left for us shown (which makes sense after all, it's not Daggerfall)

Here, this is what I mean as far as the map is concerned.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sdx8VQ27jk5-oXnFC5IQ1V9k-LIqUP5h/view?usp=sharing

I could see that maybe the mountain pass will branch off, one way going to Baldur's and another going to the Cursed Lands. That's not really what we're told, but maybe that would explain it. After all, there are likely multiple roads to any given major city. Still, the Counselor for Ravengard tells you that the drow took the mountain pass to the Cursed Land towards Moonrise, but she makes it clear she and the Fist aren't going that way. She orders a Fist to go report to others, assuming its on the way back to Baldur's. So she makes a distinction between you going to take the pass and she and her Fist returning to the army.

And Barcus just walks off away from you at the windmill. So how the flip does he get down there to Grymforge? The Spider Lair? The Hag's Lair? The Zhent's Hideout? The Temple? Why was he in Moonhaven trying to get to the Underdark unless he knew of a way down there, but which of those ways makes the most sense as to how he got down there? Why can't WE take Barcus' way into the Underdark? Sounds a lot safer and easier than going through the Temple and a host of goblins.

And I literally gave you the definition of decrepit from the dictionary. "elderly and infirm or worn out or ruined because of age or neglect." It literally means that the village is old and run down. And just walk around it. It LOOKS old and run down. So, either the gnomes just got there and hadn't moved in and fixed up the place, or they weren't living there.

Ah, but here's another flaw I have with the decrepit village being the gnomes' home and lived in by the gnomes. Thulla tells you that the duergar "have them digging out an old ruin across the lake." So, um, what's the story? Were Thulla's people living in the village and then attacked by duergar just now, or were they enslaved and helping to dig out Grymforge and Thulla escaped from them by stealing the Boots of Speed from Gekh's sergeant?

One could argue that it's been some time since the village was attacked, and so the gnomes have been taken off to Grymforge for days now to work there. But that doesn't make sense either? Thulla's poisoned and badly hurt... right now as you meet her. It's been recent. And Spaw tells you that the reason the duergar attacked his people was to reclaim Thulla who escaped from them. A duergar on the shore says that they were hunting "a runaway slave." If she's a runaway slave, then that means she WAS a slave already, not that they captured the gnomes at the village and made them slaves and Thulla was the only one to escape. She was first made a slave and then escaped with the Boots of Speed. They were hunting her because she was a "runaway."

Why is Thulla so important? If they killed the myconids just to get Thulla, why'd they kill Glut's circle? I mean, they wiped OUT Glut's circle. It wasn't just a, "You're in our way and we want that gnome," kinda thing. They exterminated Glut's people. So where are all the myconid corpses?

And Gekh makes it clear he's hunting for Thulla. That's why he was there. He wasn't there to round up gnomes and ship them off. In fact, the dead gnomes at Grymforge imply that the battle occurred there first between the gnomes and duergar, not the village.

So this is how I'm reconciling this:

Thulla and Wulbren and clan went to Grymforge to make a fortune from adamantine. They started working there to get it working again. Then the Absolute sent Nere to hire the duergar and recruit them to unearth the Temple of Shar there. They warred with the gnomes and took the forge by force, putting the gnomes into slavery to help them dig out the temple. Little did they know, but some of the gnomes, including Wulbren, went across the lake to the Ebonlake Grotto area and the Decrepit Village. They hadn't been there for very long, but they were there because they were trying to dig up some additional precious stones. After all, one of the duergar corpses tells you that the gnomes were playing around in the rubble when you ask the corpse if he has anything of value. So he implies that the gnomes had something of value after digging in the rock piles there in the village. We know that Wulbren was in the village because one of the shacks has his little diary in it, and he was captured and taken to Grymforge.

So, it is likely that they first claimed Grymforge and sent some to the Ebonlake shore to mine there as well. Thulla escaped and tried to reach them to get their help to rescue the others at Grymforge, but Gekh's group of duergar and drow pursued. I'm guessing Glut's circle was somehow between Grymforge and the Decrepit Village, so when the duergar showed up at Glut's Grotto, he fought back against them, slowing them down. Glut called for Spaw and tried to get his help, but Spaw refused aid. Glut's circle was wiped out as a result, because they slowed down Gekh and his people, and then they continued on to the Decrepit Village before Thulla could rally the gnomes there to make a proper rescue attempt. There was a huge fight at the village, most were killed, and Thulla escaped to Spaw's Grotto. Gekh tried to pursue but ran into more myconids than his remaining units could handle. They were turned against one another or threw themselves off cliffs, etc., and Gekh retreated to the village. He and only a few remained on the shore while the rest took the surviving gnomes including Wulbren back to Grymforge. By the time you set out for Grymforge, reinforcements are on their way to back up Gekh, which is why you are met by duergar on your way to Grymforge.

Still doesn't explain how Barcus gets down there, or Derryth and Baelen, or Omeluum and Blurg, etc., but sure. I figure they could sail across Ebonlake also. That makes sense. But then, Grymforge must not be the ONLY way to the surface across Ebonlake. So... again... why aren't WE given any choice but to go to Grymforge? I mean, if I'm a selfish evil person just seeking power and I don't care about the Absolute, or I think I might fare better in Baldur's as opposed to risking going to Grymforge, if I knew there was a perhaps safer way out that several others have taken including a middle-aged dwarf female and her husband who's a befuddled moron, I might consider taking the safer route out of the Underdark. And if Barcus can get in from the same region we did without going through the Temple or the Hag's Lair or the Zhent's Lair or the Spider's Lair... why couldn't we go down the same way he did? We saved his life. Right? Wouldn't that be one of the first things we'd maybe say to him if we knew we were looking for a way into the Underdark to search for the Nightsong. Wouldn't we say, "Hey! Barcus. BTW. You're heading to the Underdark, are ya? Say... um... so are we. Got this nice quest we took called Search for the Nightsong. Mind if we tag along with ya? Come on. We just saved your butt. Whatdaya say? Forget the smokepowder satchel in your heavy backpack. Show us how to get into the Underdark. Eh?"

You can see Thulla's escape route on the second level of the Grymforge she jumps into the lake and swims back. Thulla is wearing Thrinn's missing boots, she was taken along with the others before Thrinn sent Gekh to retrieve her. As for how long the gnomes have been digging there, who can say, we do see a pretty sizable pile of corpses, if you want to be morbid, we might be able to judge it by guessing how many gnomes Nere and Thrinn go through in a day.

To be clear, I see no evidence that the gnomes discovered the Grymforge, unless it was a smaller party lead by Wulbren who was looking for the secret of runepowder.

I don't think you want to get too hung up on which and how many entrances to the Underdark there are, also, lining up the maps shouldn't make much sense considering how much distance there is actually travelling downwards, the Underdark is pretty far down isn't it?

You giving the "literal" definition is maybe the problem, we don't always use words in their literal sense, nor is it wrong to call a run down shack decrepit regardless of age. This particular point is becoming a little febrile.

I'm just trying to make sense of it, and to me, the evidence of them finding Grymforge first is that there are more gnome corpses at Grymforge than Decrepit Village as if that's where they were at in greater numbers, Thulla escaped from Grymforge to the Decrepit Village, not vice versa, indicating she was going there to get help, not that it was a place already attacked by duergar that they took gnomes from already, and that the village is unlived in. Search the village. It's a ruins with rotting baskets and buildings decayed with no roofs, broken walls, etc.

And here's something else. Carrion crawler holes on the south side. Hmmm. Now what's that all about? Be a halfling or dwarf and something special happens if you stick your hand inside.

As far as lining up the maps, distance down does not equal distance horizontally. If the Whispering Depths is, let's say, 500 feet east of the temple, if I jump from a cliff in the Depths and drop 1,000 feet down, I shouldn't land somehow 500 feet or more further to the west. But that's what's happening. They literally show you drop from the Whispering Depths into the Underdark.

I'll have to play it again, but I'm pretty sure the order of events was this, gnomes go down to mine, and find runepowder, set up village to do so. Duergar are hired by true-soul Nere to excavate the old temple, they're also slavers who come across the gnome party, and enslave them to excavate the temple, Thulla escapes, Thrinn sends Gekh to find Thulla, or sends word to Gekh to retrieve her, they attack the myconids and we show up.

I think the gnomes set up the lake village because we see their corpses, the ones next to a mine shaft are said to be executed, we find numerous journals from named gnomes we later meet, including a journal written by their leader in one of the shacks.

How glut fits in I'm not sure, but he says that it was duergar who destroyed his hive, so it's possible his hive was in between the village and the other colony or he was cohabitating with the gnomes, or he was just unlucky when duergars were exploring