Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Why I Want More D&D 5e Rules

Since money is infinite and unlimited by means of LR abuse, which also restocks shops in the process, in game currently, yes.


In core rules, Arcane Tricksters use the Wizard spell list - so they could natively use wizard spell scrolls. They can't scribe, however - that perk is the purview solely of wizards alone.

If I'm recalling correctly, in 3/3.5 UMD was a universal skill (some classes had it as a class skill, but everyone could take ranks in it), and to a certain extent it was considered a necessity to have it ranked up as much as you could, regardless of who or what you were. Before that, 2nd edition, Bard was essentially a Rogue subclass, or 2e's equivalent to that - not a class on its own, and in 1st, Bard wasn't a base character class at all, but was accessible through some exceptionally demanding prestige-like requirements (including a race requirement, I think) - it wasn't really something that players got. Bard has been through a lot of changes over the editions ^.^ More than most. I don't specifically recall if udm or an equivalent skill was written into 2nd ed or earlier, to be honest, so I can't help with that one.

Right. So, what I was trying to say was that it's not always easy to know which spell can be cast by which class.

Take Detect Thoughts. Is it Cleric, Druid, Wizard, Sorcerer... Who should be able to cast it?

If I want to play true 5e, I have to look it up.

For clerics, druids and sorcs, it would be pretty easy to figure out, check their spell list. Wizards are trickier, unless you check what spells they have available per level at level up, because they can get spells through scribing.


I can't be sure either. Neverwinter Nights, by BioWare, is where I found the most OP build in DnD, Bard/Assassin/Arcane Archer. High magic worlds, low magic worlds, it didn't matter, that build rocked everything, especially since Assassinate had a ranged attack version. It took some patience to reach the power zone, but once you did, it was infinitely rewarding.

In core rules, wizards can't scribe outside their class, so it's the same for them (in terms of 'can I use this spell scroll') as for anyone else. The complaint is that, unless you meticulously memorise each class's individual spell list (because even wizard and sorcerer differ in 5e), you still have to take time out to look it up, if you're trying to play by the rules - which is time out of the game space that one shouldn't really have to be taking, in an ideal situation, and which one wouldn't have to if the rules had been placed into the game properly.

The good news is that this is most likely going to be fixed (everyone casting and wizards omni-scribing) with the major magic and casting update that is confirmed to be happening at some unspecified point in the future. This is something that they are aware of and are (at last comment, subject to change) intending to bring into line with formal 5e.

Is it literally or figuratively infinite? I tried selling every last fork and cup to vendors and then killing them to recuperate the loot. I got 25 000 gold, thirty-ish scrolls and had every item slot equipped by the end of EA (patch 5).

That’s a lot of gold, but scrolls are kind of expensive, especially if you’re using them in a carefree fashion. Also, this method removes vendors from the game, limiting access to scrolls and potions.

Am I missing something? Is there an exploit I don’t know about?

Literally:

Vendors restock every long rest, including gold. Even if all you do is sell junk to vendors with maximum affinity, you'll have over 40k gold by the time you're in the mostly through the underdark, and that's WITHOUT farming crystals to sell.

If that still isn't enough, you can just steal from vendors to loot them of their gold at no risk and no repercussions, endlessly, resting in between emptying them out to create an infinite amount of gold.

Also, don't kill vendors, it's wasteful ^.^

Edit: Even if you get caught stealing, just bribe them (for less than you stole), and then pay them some money back free to return their affinity to maximum... then steal it again. There's simply no consequence to this and no fail state.

Thanks! Man, is this game broken... In that case, fighters über alles.

I must've missed that episode of Captain Planet.

So, if one is looking to avoid exploiting the current meta for scrolls, one has to do what one would have to do in a TT session, and look it up? Either one of the players, or the GM would do this, or, would have already have done this, in the case of the GM. It's what happened around every table I ever played where the GM wasn't as forthcoming with information as others were. Another solution would be to add "For (insert class(es) here) only" to the meta description of the scrolls. This is not to say that it doesn't need to be fixed, but that it would provide a way for those that are unsure, or are unwilling to do the footwork, to keep the scrolls in the proper place. It serves the same purpose as making it have a red background if the character examining it can't use it.

First, let me assure you I'm not arguing or debating. Just sharing my POV.

As a DM, I look for any tools I can use to speed up my game sessions. One tool is an app called 5e Companion. I also just started using the computer app Fantasy Grounds. With the 5e Companion, the spell list is quick to access and it lets me know what spells are for what class. Also, character sheets on the app pre-filter spells so if I want to know if a certain character can use a spell scroll, the players can pull up their personal pre-filtered spell list. They can tell me if a spell is on their list. Super quick.

Fantasy Grounds is even better. Because it is an official licensed software, it has all the rules and so forth built into the software. It just makes it a whole lot easier when the computer software lets you know so you don't have to look it up, when a particular character can or cannot cast a particular spell.

This is the kind of stuff I'm looking for in bg3. I want them to make it so that I don't have to remember the rules or the proper class restrictions etc and have to try to restrict myself in order to have a true D&D experience. That sucks. Being a DM, a video game like this is the only chance I really get to be a player. So I want my DM to manage the rules so that I don't have to. I don't want to have to look things up so much. I just want to be a player and enjoy the ride. Otherwise, I'll just go back to my tabletop sessions and be the DM like normal because I've got software programs that can pretty closely simulate what's in a video game and I can make it exactly how I want it to be. But see, it's nice to be a player sometimes. And that's why I want this to be an authentic D&D experience. And so that I, a DM, can actually be a player for once and still feel like I'm playing an authentic D&D game.

Besides, seeing D&D with such incredible graphics is like a dream come true for me. So I want the game to be an authentic D&D experience for that as well. I want to see D&D really brought to life in a video game. I feel like past video games have done okay with it but still constantly missed the mark in one way or another. I was so looking forward to this game being a true authentic table top turn based D&D experience. It can be done. Modern software proves you can translate D&D combat into a video game flawlessly. The problem is, nobody seems willing to stay true to the rules. I get that they need to market it to a broader audience. Still, I feel like nobody really has the guts to just make it a total D&D 5e experience and see how people like it.

With D&D being so popular these days you'd think that they'd be a little bit more bold and just say here's the raw D&D 5e rules and stats. Since it is early access, it would have been a perfect time to test how people really felt about a raw 5e experience. Give everyone the raw 5e and then get the feedback and tweak it from there based on the feedback instead of giving people an absolute Homebrew experience and then asking for feedback and not really giving the authentic raw experience at all. That's the part I don't get. The only reason I can think of that they did this was that it was easier to just take the dos game and make it bg3 and then say that the 5e rules just don't work. See that's where I'm kind of struggling. I don't know if I believe that they truly tried to do 5e and found that it just wasn't working. It seems more like they just went dos with it and give it a smattering of 5e just so they could say that it was based on 5e. Sure, some DM probably crafted all of the encounters via table top design and gave them ideas of what encounters they should incorporate in the game, but I really don't think that they literally put the rules in the game to begin with and then found that it didn't work.

Anyway, at this point all I'm hoping for is that they give us some settings so that we can enable a raw 5e experience with the options to tweak those rules so that if there are certain 5e rules that we don't like we can easily change them. I'm hoping it's not too much to ask.

Except players do have to manage the rules. They have to know what spells they can and can't use going in. They learn this from their Player Handbooks, and other resources that are available. It's not like a rules lawyer is limited to a subclass of GM. This isn't just 5e, it's DnD in a nutshell. It's amazing to me that you have access to all these resources, and yet, don't use them to enhance your DnD experience on the PC? I have none of that, and still manage to not fall into the "the only build you need" trap.

One of the main reasons I don't play spellcasters, as a general rule, is because of all the micro-management that goes along with it, including what spells I can and can't use, and when I should and shouldn't use them. When I'm leveling my party, I look at spells that they could take, and if I have scrolls for those, they get them. If it can go to multiples, I pick which would make the most sense for my party configuration. Maybe my Druid, for example, is more combat focused, so I'd pass them Cure scrolls to supplement, instead of passing them to the cleric. Or maybe I have a few, and I spread them out. I've been doing this since BG 1, I'm not sure why it's suddenly so confusing, given that the current meta does need to be addressed. Especially if I had access to a resource that I could put on my second monitor.

However, I don't need a rule book to tell me that a wizard doesn't have Eldritch Blast. Not that I've seen a scroll for that. I also know that Prismatic Orb, despite how it was originally tooled, is a sorc thing here. All I had to do was read the basic information that is provided by the game for that. How it actually functions is questionable, but who can use it is plainly laid out. Yes, it requires that I read the provided information, and retain it, but that's not any different from TT. When there is confusion, resources are pulled up, either through a book, or one of your programs in your case, and it's resolved. But it's amazing to me that you seem to believe that players don't have to know the rules in order to play.

The point is that they want the game to set these rules for them, the same way it sets any other number of rules, so they don't have to look it up themselves. The game could easily be written to automate that.

First, "the only build you need" trap is not a 5e thing that I was referring to. It is an example of how bg3 is broken, not 5e. In bg3, I can create a fighter who has everything because nothing is restricted. So he can be a wizard, cleric, a rogue, a druid, a fighter, and even a warlock as long as I have the right scrolls and potions and items. That's what my whole point is.

But yeah, all I'm saying about spells and scrolls and such is that they restrict them to their proper classes so that I don't have to. I shouldn't have to try to restrict myself or limit myself on this. It should be like in Solasta. If I try to use a revivalify scroll in Solasta, and I'm not a cleric, it literally will not let me and it will tell me I don't have the right class.

All I'm asking for with this is the option in the settings to make it so that I can have proper class restrictions, and so that if I hover over a particular scroll or examine it it'll tell me what class can cast that scroll. At least if it tells me, I don't have to look it up.

See, what you're talking about with looking it up in the players guide, that's old school. We know him computer programs and apps that can tell us these things without us having to flip through books and find it. In a video game, it is expected that I shouldn't have to pull out a player's guide or a spell book or a monster manual or anything in order to know basics about something in the game.

Shoot, I'd love for them to do something even where they make it so that if you examine an enemy, your character will make a nature role or something similar. If you succeed, the game will even tell you the enemies basic stats and abilities because your character knows enough about them that they are able to know those details. If you fail the role, you don't get to know those stats and everything is just a health bar, and you don't know what armor and weapons they're carrying, and their special abilities. That would really make certain knowledge skills so much more valuable, and it would add an extra challenge to the game if you didn't know or have the ability to know your enemies stats.

And another thing, you mentioned that one of the reasons why you don't like to play spellcasters is because it's too much management. That is actually more of what my whole point is. This is a video game, so the game should help me manage all my character stats and abilities regardless of whether they're a spellcaster or not so that it's fun to play any class. The more they automate for me and the less work I have to do, the more fun it is.

That's part of why I have a problem with the hot bar. When the game Auto adds things to your hot bar, it jumbles around spells and scrolls and special abilities and potions so it's hard to find anything. When we get into higher level, it's going to be a nightmare to manage for this very reason. That's partially why I'm making such a big deal out of it. If I have to try to restrict myself with scrolls and so forth right now because they're not doing it for me, it's going to be really bad once my character's level six or seven or eight.

And that goes for all classes. People out here keep arguing that us who want a more 5e experience should just play it that way. Restrict yourself. But when you get into higher levels with all sorts of different abilities and spells and so forth, it's going to make the game no fun if I have to try to remember all the rules and nuances and then restrict myself.

And this now brings us back to the primary topic. This is why I want them to implement a true 5e rule set and stats and so forth with options to tweak it for Homebrew if we want to. If they don't do this for us, then those of us who want a true D&D experience aren't going to get it.

You are aware that you can turn off the auto add function in Options, UI, right? Scroll down on it, I think it's close to the bottom, and there's a few checkboxes to hit, and no more losing stuff on the hotbars.

I am aware of your build, and what it means. I have acknowledged countless times that that scenario is broken, and yet, again, here you are, beating me over the head with it. I'm not sure how much clearer I can be about it. I'm to the point where I'm starting to wonder how many people are posting on your account.

I, for one, hope that hotbar management changes. Locking the hotbar (and unchecking stuff in a separate menu) can work for a while. As the characters progress there are more things to choose from and it would be great to have the ability to expand the narrow hotbar in order to organize things. Perhaps it could be given it's own UI page...

Otherwise, locking the hotbar is good until it isn't. Since the game isn't capable of knowing when I want it locked and when I don't there should be more features to it. Being able to "freeze" certain rows (or maybe just single squares), for example, would make things easier. I leave the bar unlocked because, early on in the game, I want stuff added automatically but as I get more stuff I notice that things in the hotbar start shifting around. "Freezing" squares is a good way to have locked and unlocked at the same time.

Yes. I am aware. Still doesn't work real well, but I do turn it off. Have you tried unchecking all those boxes? It's better, but it still will auto-arrange things on you if you switch weapons or do different certain things.

As for the build, we must just be not understanding each other then because to me it seemed you were not understanding what I was trying to say. So maybe we'll just drop that.

I believe you have found the core of your problem ...
You are not suppose to switch your weapons too often. O_o And even if you do, all you need to do is place up to 3 icons ... that doesnt sounds like "too much" to me. O_o

Its exactly the same as when you were complaining that party UI is tedious and iritating, since if you want to send one party member somewhere else, you have to degroup all other companions and then regroup them back ... instead of simply degrouping the one who you want to sent off.
If you scratch left cheek using your right hand by stretching it over your head, its not really comfortable ... but question here is ... is that misstake of hand, or yours?

Its just the same here ...
You allowed your bar to become a mess, and then you are complaining it it a mess.

Note that i dont say that there arent things that could (and should) be done better ...
There is certainly room for improvements ... but to claim that system we have "is a mess" is quite exaggerated ... it can be a mess witout a doubt, if you let it, but that is entirely different story. :P

Recast spells is my personal favourite topic in this matter.
Instead of giving us new icon that will be placed on first aviable position (and yes, im aware that if you know this, you can adjust your actionbar so you know where it will appear ... that is what i do btw) it would be MUCH, MUCH and once more MUCH better, if this new "recast" spell would simply replace the spell icon, or join its upcast in popup window) ...
I mean just concider it, if Warlock is lucky enough he will cast Hex litteraly once per Long Rest ... why so vaguely used spell is suppose to take precious place on our bar? Especialy now since it was reduced.
It would be much better if the Hex would become Recast-Hex if aviable ... that way the spell we want to use is still on the same place no matter what and it never takes more than single position.

Same story goes with others ... produce flame, witch bolt, speak with dead and many many many others.

Yes! Absolutely! Playing icon hide and seek is a pain, as is recasting a spell with the wrong button. I'm aware of the empty slot trick, but the slot gets used up if you add anything to the hotbar, such as a newly prepared spell, the ability from a new item, etc...

Or, you know what would be even easier? If we had a single spell button that pulled up a pre-organized window of prepared spells listing them in order based on spell level and alphabetical, and yeah, if you need to recast, it replaced cast. Instead of tossing everything on a hotbar in random order... Ah... order!

But this is distracting from the original post. The only reason I mentioned it was because once we get higher levels, this game is gonna be a mess of issues if they don't implement more 5e. Scrolls will become even more confusing as to which scroll should be available for which class.

Limitations bring balance and order. Homebrew brings more chaos and imbalance. In a game like D&D, the more homebrew, as you get to higher levels especially, the greater the mess.

And once your own imagination of corect order of spells will be different than Larians you are screwed. :-/