Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Fun game to pass the time- Troika games Temple of Elemental Evil - D&D 3.5E - Plus 15 years of Mods

Sometimes two people can agree on what they think is important in a game, and yet disagree on whether and to what extent that thing exists in a particular game. Take immersion for example. You and I both agree it is a critical element of a good cRPG. And you believe BG3 has planty of immersion. But I disagree, and find BG3 lacking in sufficient immersion for me. We both would agree the quality of writing is very important. You think BG3's writing is strong/excellent. I consider the writing to be abysmal. Even your claim here that BG3 fits the list you wrote up I would dispute in several areas.

Well, immersion-wise I am more on the fence. Lets just say there is room for improvement. I mean how are potatoes 1 gold each? Potato farmers in short supply?

Please, elucidate.

Hey, the potato is a fresh new hip thing just brought over from Maztica :P

Didn't you just mock and dismiss me in your last post here? Not convinced you sincerely have an interest in anything I may post.

Were you referring to the actual tabletop gaming rules, CRPGs based on the AD&D 2e rules or both?

Okay I'll bite.

I am referring to both. I played a lot of TT D&D with 2e rules (it's where I started with D&D), and really disliked that for melee classes especially you didn't have much to add to your character during level-up. And once you got above level 10 you gained virtually nothing meaningful at all from level to level. This then also meant that in combat all had available to do was to just keep repeating to your DM: I take yet another swing at the target. But even playing other types of classes I always felt very strongly that 2e rules did not provide meaningful character development options, and leveling up was mostly rather boring.

But at least in TT play, if you have a good DM, your DM can find ways to make things interesting for you. In a video game, like all the IE games, you don't have that, and you are stuck with boring character development. The whole point of leveling up in an RPG is to feel that everything your character did since the last level up was meaningful in concrete ways. So when you get to that next leveling up point, and your character does not change/advance in any meaningful way (in 2e you had many levels at which hardly anything changed in your character), it takes away a lot from the game. That's why for me 3.5e of D&D remains the best. Where others consider it too complex, or even bloated, I consider that "bloat" to be exactly what is awesome about that edition. I love it!! I love having a million options and all the different ways in which you can advance and develop your character. And that's a huge part of why I love the Pathfinder games. I could easily, and happily, spend dozens of hours just on character development, not just at the beginning of the game but at every level-up.

I'm with Kanisatha when it comes to combat and level progression in most rpgs. Combat is rarely made interesting by the rules, it's always going to be up to how the DM designs it, including breaking the rules to make it more interesting. That isn't as easy in a crpg, as someone who's played their fair share of JRPGs, they're the quintessential example of how combat that operates solely on its rules becomes repetitive and boring, the "grind". I kind of felt this way towards the end of WotR, but it could be levelled at most of the rpgs I've played, even Baldur's Gate II, I don't think I'd replay that game without being a some kind of caster (though I do love being a mage-slayer fighter in that game, talking about breaking rules to make combat fun)
Computer rpgs, for me are at their most interesting when they're about social puzzles, the interplay of your character and those around them, and how the story changes based on your choices.

Third edition was where I started with D&D but I'm not sure I would go all on board with it being the most satisfying level up experience, mostly because things got so out of hand after a certain point. That isn't really a 3e problem though, it's a D&D problem, and for most people it's not even a problem it's a feature.
I think that's why I like classless systems the best, all of your progress is decentralized towards your skills, which develop at the same time your character does.

I'm still angry that Atari = Ex-Infogrames NEVER published the last Patch for ANYTHING outside the English language edition ...
Kobolds never forget !

Romance options in Temple of Elemental Evil


Meet "Fruella"

There is a quest to "find her a husband" - meaning one of your male party members. She then joins your party as a level 3 fighter and eats up a full share of treasure. Her stats are not bad, but her voice is bloodcurdling. Very fran drescher.

As I've mentioned in the thread, her portrait is, indeed, the stuff of nightmares. I forgot about the voice, though. Ugh.

ToEE portraits in general are probably the one thing you should have modded regardless of whether or not you want your experience to be as vanilla as possible. The available selection is... not particularly good. Good luck finding a single face for a non-elf male ranger, or a non-dwarf female fighter/paladin. All dwarves portraits except one are clad in armor, so if you're bothered by the portrait not matching well with the character's in-game appearance (which is surprisingly customizable - you have a plenty of differently-colored capes, robes (both bathrobes and Oriental-styled monk ones), boots, gloves, and headgear (including a wizard hat and a questionably-named conical "Asian hat") that are all displayed on the model), mod new portraits into the game without hesitation.

Yeah there is definitely some 'retrograde' design in the game. I forgot about the "asian hat" - that is classic. Comedy gold.

Then there is the even more puzzling decision not to include a basic skin tint shader for the characters. None of the mods have really addressed it either but it's just so odd.

Made even more baffling is that you can play a Troll who is green or a Drow who is gray - or you can play a white human, halfling, elf, half elf, gnome, half orc, or dwarf!

It's easily one of my favorite dungeon crawlers of all time... Once you can get past the lethargic first two hours in the initial settlement while doing your preparations to reach the Temple for the first time.

Man, if this game didn't try hard to give a bad first impression.

Still, overall a fucking rough diamond.
Another title that goes to prove Troika knew what they were doing... When you don't count actually making money as a priority.

Seriously. The in town quests to get to 2nd level are about as dull as it gets and don't really fit with all the alignment options. Thankfully the mods add an alternative mystery/combat quest line that is more compelling before heading to the Moathouse and getting on with the main storyline.

Yeah Troika made 3 killer games and then died. It's really unfortunate.

There isnt any good CRPG. Unless you count Diablo as on. Diablo is more ARPG. DOS2 was indie crap imho. Its worrying that kind of game can get 93 metacritic, innovation, creativity, complexity brought the points? BG3 could be the the first good one.

I remember this one from long ago, good combat, a bit buggy when you got to the Elemental Nodes. It had this crazy magical sword that couldn't miss. However, the only person in the party that could wield it was Elmo the 'town drunk', as no one else in the party was Chaotic Good. So there is a magical item for those folks that are always bitching about missing all the time.

Fragarach!

also Scather.

The itemization in ToEE in general is all sorts of deranged, honestly. Your money would fluctuate like crazy if you craft wonderous and magic items as they are expensive to make but the loot you get is worth ridiculous amounts of coin. Killing a certain character in the first town, which can be easily done at levels 4-5 or so, nets you a +3 chainmail, while your first full plate can only be obtained (without mods) about halfway through the game. There are tons of weapons but very few options (without mods(1)) come in magic or masterwork (enchantable) versions, though it can be bypassed via using the Magic Weapon spell to make a weapon temporarily magic and applying a non-enhancement effect, then waiting until the spell ends. And if you plan on using a monk (without mods(2)), then having a druid in the party is kind of a must, because to make the amulet that increases unarmed attack damage you need the Magic Fang spell.

Theres rumours that Cyberpunk Online comes in March or April.

Sir, this is a Wendy's.

Also that was cancelled - assuming you mean Cyberpunk 2077's online version by CD Project red.