Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback BG3 Directions Don't Align

I've brought this up before, but I'm going to bring it up again. The map does not align with dialogue/texts.

1. One document or dialogue, can't remember which at this point, I think it's Andrick, brother of Ed and Brynna, who says that there's a village south of that location. But the nautiloid on the game map is south of their position. Moonhaven is west. Thus, South in dialogue = West.

2. One document mentions the village south of the grove. Again, Moonhaven is west of the Emerald Enclave according to the game map. So, again, South = West.

3. One document mentions that statues of drow and the spectator were found south of the Selunite Outpost. However, according to the game map, the drow and spectator are west of the Selunite Outpost. So, again, South = West.

4. Expedition # 42, Burrow Warden Meerna's Journal, mentions that they explored the north quadrant. If South = West, then North would equal East. Thus, that means, that the Underdark Map in the game is North of Ebonlake, meaning that Decrepit Village is likely Expedition # 42's site. Since there is a mine on the East (dialogue/document North) side of the village, that would again make sense.

So, what doesn't make sense is why dialogues and texts give us directions that don't align with the game map. It really messes with me and is confusing when I'm trying to analyze where everything is and in which direction. They really need to fix this.

Do you concider big map?
Since thins age placed differently there.

Is the mini map different from the big map or is it that the mini map looks different because it is scaled down and everything looks squished?


Is this a topic better suited for Technical & Gameplay Problems? That being said, in your experience, do the developers take feedback from these forums? I hope so but I'm still pretty new here...

Is there anything on the map that says North is "up"?

The worldmap and the "area" (mini)map don't even match so I have little hope that they will try to be consistent

Well ...
This are sorted differently:


Yes, on minimap there is little N with and arrow pointing that way.

Yeah. It's like, at some point someone who was writing the scripts thought west was south, but that doesn't even make sense. Risen Road is east-west, as is Chionthar. Now, granted, could be a bend I. The road and river that heads north-south, but they have you head off the west side of the map towards Baldur's. So it makes more sense to be west.

That's why I brought it up. It's really weird that documents and dialogues in game have the directions all messed up. As it is, it's hard for players to get their bearings. This just screws with us more.

I get what you're saying, but you don't really need to analyse anything to play the game. Quest locations get a yellow marker on the mini-map, go to the yellow marker and you're all set. All the better, too, as distances, time and directions are vague abstractions in BG3. I think NPCs talk about them for color, not reference.

Of course I don't really need to analyze anything. However, I am because I'm trying to a) figure out what the heck is happening in the game because things aren't really spelled out for you. You have to piece it all together based on the clues they give you via documents and dialogues; and b) I'm trying to write my own fan fic and have it make sense.

The sure sign of any really well-written story is that it is consistent and cohesive. Those who write crap novels and movie scripts and video game stories, etc., are those who don't pay attention to details and don't try to make everything work well together. The more cohesive and consistent the story is, the more real it feels and the more people can connect with it.

This game is fun. I enjoy it. It is good. But I don't want it to be just good. I want it to be great. I want it to be the kind of game people can scrutinize and try to pick apart, but when they do they suddenly go, "Oh my gosh! I didn't realize that detail was there and that explains everything as to why things are the way they are."

THAT, my friends, is the sign of a really good story. Everything has a purpose and place and they all fit together in some way that makes sense. They've put so many details into this game already, and most line up. This is something so minor, but it is also very confusing from a consistency perspective. Did they mean South in the dialogue, or should it be West? When these simple things don't line up, it confuses direction and immersion and leaves players who are paying attention to such details wondering, "Is Baldur's gate south of the Grove or west according to the game map? I'm confused?

That's sloppy. I expect more from Larian. Shouldn't everyone?

Boy, do we disagree about this!

Audiences connect with characters, not the internal consistency of the setting. The depth of motivations, desires and decisions make a story real. Focusing on the world-building is missing the point. The end of Titanic is about the sacrifice Jack makes for Rose, not the physics of the buoyancy of wooden panels.

There are plenty of great stories whose setting makes zero sense. Harry Potter has a great evil one kept secret from muggles, even though there are billions of us and we have drones. Batman would be found out in zero seconds if anyone cared to investigate. The story of Hamlet happens because he sees a ghost in a setting where ghosts don't exist. The Little Prince is all about the absurdity of the world. Waiting for Godot happens nowhere in particular. But the characters! The characters are so great they feel tangible. The audience identifies with the characters even if the backround details are a little fuzzy.

I'd argue those who write crap stories don't pay attention to their characters. There have been a bunch of movies lately that were made to set up multi-picture franchises. They stunk. Why? Because they wanted to build a world first and tell a story about interesting characters second. But stories are nothing without characters. They drive the story with their flaws, desires, actions - in a word : their humanity. Remember that act breaks are defined by character actions - the very structure of stories is built around what characters do.

Interesting characters are the mark of a good story. I was so surprised that you thought otherwise, GM4Him, that I read some of your fan fiction. I have notes, if you want to hear them.

So, because they didn't tell you how the story ends before they dropped you in Act 1, you're confused. The thing about a good mystery is that it's not spelled out for you, initially, and you have to work within the boundaries of what's given to figure it out. I sure wish that this was the first game that said "Go here to do that" when it's actually "go to this other place". I mean, it's not like this is how retcons are born. Wait, yes, it is, actually.

The problem is, you'll never see it as great unless they pull everything out but 5e. It doesn't matter what the rest of us may be enjoying about it, if it's not 5e, it has to go. Of course, this leads to you making things up as being 5e, such as party size, right? I'll tell you something else that makes a good story, and I'll even hit you with a good example:

When the story doesn't fall into place until somewhere close to the end of the narrative. If you haven't played Horizon Zero Dawn, you should. It will demonstrate quite clearly how you don't need the whole of the story to make sense in Act 1. The juiciest bits of that story aren't confirmed until near the end of the game.

OK. Quick point of correction. Yes. I 100% agree. Characters ultimately are the core of any story. You are correct there. But, at the end of the day, if things don't make sense in the story, it leaves readers feeling kinda like, "What the heck was that? Why did they do that? That felt like it was just the author making the characters say or do something just to further the plot, not because THEY chose to do it."

Ultimately, characters need to drive the story. But this is really not the point I was trying to make. The point I was trying to make is that it is sloppy story-telling to have a map showing clearly what north-south-east-west is but then having every document and dialogue that mentions directions saying that south is west and east is north. That's inconsistent and sloppy and it is senseless and shows shoddy workmanship.

It's like two painters who are trying to replicate a landscape on canvas. There is a path right down the center that is winding along. One painter messes up the path, and it isn't quite center nor is it bending at all the right places. There's still a path, but it's not quite an accurate depiction of the picture.

The other painter, however, gets the path just right. It lines up with the landscape, AND the quality of both paintings is comparable. Which work of art is better? The painter who drew the accurate painting of the path and everything. Why? Because he made sure all the details lined up with what he was trying to replicate.

All I'm saying is that the best stories are those that pay attention to the details. Yes, there are incredible stories with huge gaping plot holes. There are stories with details that don't align. However, stories are better if they ALSO pay attention to details, crafting the story based on characters YES, but also making sure they pay attention to the details too.

I am always happy to receive feedback. Message me, if you'd like, or provide comments on the blog or in the thread about the blog. However you want to provide feedback.

You've lost me. Sorry. How does fixing the map directions have to do with them not telling us the whole story, etc.? I love mysteries. I like that they don't tell us everything exactly, but any good mystery also has clues that you can find that tell you the story. The Moonhaven story is one of my favorites in the game. I really had to piece that sucker together, and I'm still debating with people about what truly happened. This is good. I like this. That's how it should be in Act 1. Yes.

But fixing map directions has nothing to do with that. It's just providing some consistency. Is south really south, or is it west? That's very basic, but it's something messed up in the game.

Now, if they provide us with some sort of valid reason as to why this is the way that it is, then fine. Don't fix it. Leave it. I'm all for crazy stuff that we just don't understand right now but that they're going to throw a curve ball at us about later. Great. However, I'm calling it out because it really seems like a flub up, that someone was messing up the directions and they never fixed it.

This particular post has nothing to do with 5e mechanics or good story-telling or anything like that. Sorry I brought that into it. I was really just trying to say that this seems wrong and it looks like an oversight or an error that needs fixing. They need to pay attention to this detail and others like it so that things remain consistent.

Simple fix. Nothing huge. No big deal surely. It's more like Kylo Ren's scar on his face. People who are paying attention will notice. It doesn't destroy the whole story, but it is still something that people will see and notice and it breaks some of the immersion for them. So why not just make the scar consistent? Similarly, if there is no real good reason why south = west, why not just make the records align. 1 word. Problem solved.

Then I would suggest you re-read the post under your name that I quoted? It's not even snipped, so you can read the whole thing where you tried to explain what good writing is, all while apparently losing the plot of your own post.

Look. It's real simple. I wasn't attempting to get them to strip the game of all of its elements but 5e rules. I don't know where you got that from. I even said, I like this game, and my intent is always to try to make this game better.

I also explained that what I meant by the whole good storytelling thing is that a good storyteller does whatever they can to make the story consistent and logical so that it doesn't confuse their readers. This was in response to someone saying that I should just basically overlook the fact that the game map doesn't line up with documents and dialogues.

I have not lost the point of this post. The point of this post was to bring to their attention that the directions on the map do not match the directions in their dialogue and in their documents. It has nothing to do with them not revealing Mysteries in act 1 or anything of that nature. I'm still not really sure where you got that from.

The entire point of this post is that I found something that appears to be a mistake or maybe an oversight and I thought they should maybe fix it so that if someone is paying attention to it or looking into it, like me, they're not left wondering what the heck is going on simply because the directions don't line up between a particular document and the game map.

So, to be perfectly clear, when one of the documents says that the spectator and the draw statues are South of The Outpost, but on the game map there west of The Outpost, that's confusing. The document says South, so I'm thinking there must be some more underdark to explore on the game map somewhere South of The Outpost. But in fact, it's referring to the West on the game map even though the document says South. That's not a mystery. That's a mistake.

Another example, when a document says that the village is to the south of the Grove, that leads a person to think that the nautiloid crash landed on a village. But when I look everywhere around the nautiloid I don't see any remnant of any kind of Village anywhere. There are no fragmented wooden beams or stone work from foundations or anything that would imply that there was a village there. So, that leaves me to wonder, are they referring to moonhaven in the document. Is it a mistake?

If it isn't, and there really was a village where the nautiloid is, then fine. No need to change anything. But if there was no intention of ever having a village where the nautiloid is, then that's a mistake in the document. Therefore, I am calling it out so that they can evaluate it and determine if it is indeed a mistake as opposed to something that really should be in the game.

That is the only purpose of this entire thread. I am not, and I repeat, I am not attempting to criticize the overall storytelling. The only reason I brought up bad storytelling was because if they made a mistake and they don't fix it even though they know about it, that's just sloppy storytelling. If I am an editor of a book and I find something like this, I would call it out to the author and tell them they should edit it. If the author doesn't, that sloppy storytelling.

So again, to be perfectly clear, I am not criticizing the storytelling abilities of those who are creating this game. I actually think they are very good storytellers and as I said in one of the posts above, I am amazed at a lot of the detail that is in the game that does line up. So why shouldn't they line up something this simple? If I bring it to their attention and they don't do anything about it that's just plain sloppy.

I sincerely hope that this clears up this little misunderstanding and we don't have to debate this or argue about it any further. I really really really don't want to argue with people out here. I have much better things to do with my time than to argue and debate about something so minor as to whether or not they should fix a small error like making map directions line up with their dialogue and text. I respect or try to respect everyone on these forums, but really don't want to argue about these things.

Maybe it's a deliberate attempt to create a medieval feel? Navigational maps had North at the top, while the mappae mundi (which were more artistic impressions) often put East at the top.

What if that village is further south than we can currently travel? We're in Act 1, playing limited maps. There are a lot of places we'll never see, and some places we may see later on. There are places that are referenced that we will likely be going after release too. The crash site isn't the limit of the world, just the limit of the game's current area map. I'd bet there's a whole lot of world south of our current location. Is Netheril problematic for you because you can't travel there right now? What about Thay? Just because it's mentioned in the lore, or the game doesn't mean it needs to show up. It could be a "for future reference" thing, for all we know. It could also be that it never shows up at all, but simply exists to give those fishermen some place to live.

I thought that, but if you notice the N on you mini map, it tells you which way is North. I stood in the Selunite Outpost facing the direction of the spectator area. N was on my right.

Like I said, rob, if it's intentional, then great. Leave it. If not, fix it. I'm calling it out in case it's a mistake.