You know. You really love this game. It's commendable. You really fight tooth and nail to try to keep even little things from being considered.
From someone who hates this game so much so he fight tooth and nail to try to force even little things to change ...
I take this completely wrong and irellevant observation as a compliment.
Yup, and material is a material.
Glad to see we are geting somewhere.
If it was established that a ruby was a symbol of the Muslim faith, and you saw a priest with rubies on his shoulders, a big circle on his chest that looked like a ruby with a design on it, and a ruby at the very center of his forehead on a circlet, and if you knew that in order for a Muslim priest to actually be able to bless someone that he would have to have a holy symbol on him (because that's ESTABLISHED D&D FORGOTTEN REALMS LORE) then chances are you'd likely assume that the priest was a Muslim Priest.
And once that person would take all those Ruby off, and still would be able to bless me ...
What does it tell me?
That those are clearly his holy symbols he desperately needed to do his blessing? O_o
Well, i have different outcome. :-/
And by the way ...
I just noticed i thing i have finaly found an error in your example ...
When i show you 3 males, all of them would have Ruby on their forehead ... on their chestplate ... and on their shoulders (even tho i didnt notice that one on Shadowheart) ...
And i would tell you that one of them is a priest.
How would you know wich one it is?
That is my point, there is no way to tell if Shadowheart is wearing them bcs she is worshiping Shar, or bcs she simply have bad taste for jewelery, unless you ask her.
Yes you are able to by Investigation roll determine that the stone on her forehead is an Onyx ... THEN and ONLY THEN you might be potentialy able by Religion roll determine that Onyxes are often used by worshipers of Shar ...
BUT still, there is no way you would be determine by simple roll if that is the reason she is wearing it.
Here's a real world example. Jade. It is firmly established that jade is symbolic of nobility and wealth in Oriental cultures. It is known as the "Gem Supreme" and the "Jewel of Heaven" and the "Stone of the Heart." Green Jade symbolized the Five Virtues of Humanity in Chinese tradition. The Jade Emperor in Chinese culture was one of the representations of the first god.
So, a person in ancient China sees a priest with jade stones on their shoulders, a jade circle on their chest that takes up about a foot diameter on their chest, AND he wears a jade stone on a circlet on his forehead. The priest even makes it clear he's a priest. Hmmm. What is he a priest of? Or... um... is he just wearing jade as jewelry? Did he just think it was pretty and put it on his clothes because it looks nice? Or... maybe... just maybe... if you succeeded in a Religion check, meaning you actually knew something about the Jade Emperor, wouldn't you then draw a connection to the Jade Emperor because you saw this guy, who you know is a priest mind you, wearing not 1, not 2, but 3 jade stones on his outfit, one on his forehead, and a big jade circle with a symbol of some kind on his chest? Jade, a stone, was commonly known in China in those days as symbolic of the Jade Emperor and of heaven. Many nobles and emperors of ancient China wore jade BECAUSE it was symbolic of heaven, and they wanted their peasants to believe that they were granted authority and power by heaven to rule over the "lesser" peoples of the world.
Cute ...
Let me quote someone you should understand:
"
It is firmly established that jade is symbolic of nobility and wealth in Oriental cultures."
Conclusion: That person is wealthy and noble ...
Therefore he is wearing a jade, no deity included.
As for Shar walking and onyx being created, you're missing my point. I don't think the description Larian gives us in this regard is literal. The point is that even Larian is pointing out that an onyx stone is symbolic of Shar. In their description, they are telling us that onyx = Shar. So, if we know this just because it's in a random description somewhere, shouldn't our characters be given the opportunity to point it out immediately if they succeed in a Religion check?
A=B =/> B=A
Being a Sharite means wearing an Onyx ...
Weering an Onyx does not being a Sharite.
I litteraly cant say it simplier.
I mean, it's in the description of an onyx stone that onyx is a symbol of Shar. How can you refute that?
I not refuting anything, whatever that means ...
Im only pointing out that there is at least one more way to connect the dots.
I wonder why are you resisting so hardly ...
Yes i know, we as a players are aware that she is a Sharite, but our characters are not.
Even the look of the armor is constantly thrown in your face from the Grove murals all the way throughout Grymforge. Dark Justiciar armor with onyx stones as large as life all throughout the armor proves that Shadowheart's armor is Dark Justiciar armor.
Eh ... no? It isnt.
Until you reach the Grymforge, there is litteraly nothing to compare her armor with ...
It would be like wawing with a flag with a symbol on it (i dunno, for example jumping red wolf on black field) before you face for few hours (days in game time) ...
And then reveal to you that this symbol is used by local Nazi group, since swastika is forbidden.
That does not mean that you had Swastika before your eyes this whole time ... it only means that you never know until now how is this used.
So, let's say you create a Sage background character who is also a Wizard with high intelligence, so your Religion/History skills are high - like +5 or +6 at level 1. Shouldn't this type of character, who might have actually studied up on Sharran culture, armor, weapons, history, etc. have a shot, at least, of knowing, right away, that Shadowheart is a Sharran cleric? And wouldn't that also be true for the DEFAULT Tav character build who is a cleric of Selune who should know a great deal about Shar since Shar is her religion's ARCH-NEMESIS?
You know you dont need to be Wizard to have high Intelligence score?
And yes, such purposely created characters should be suspicious.
They still should not know, tho. :P Maybe after some mind probing.
So please don't be so flippant with your $#@$$ stone comments, thank you. Those kinds of comments are just you trying to instigate fighting and debating. Please stop. I'm done with that kinda stuff. Stuff like that is why I ignored you before a couple of times now. It's really not necessary.
Well, since we are so rudely honest with each other ...
This kind of coments make me glad you did.
And im certain it would not take long until you shall once again, since well ... you dont show any signs of different behaviour compared to the past.
I wonder if you feel like winner, if you refuse to listen to anything that dont fit to your concepts. O_o
It must be horribly lonely. :-/
Dragon Age or I don't even know (do they have holy symbol requirements???)
No ...
There is no Divine magic in Dragon Age at all.
Without a symbol of Shar, she shouldn't be able to cast spells at all. So, when I see a circlet on her head, and I see no other holy symbol at all that could even potentially be being used by her, I'm assuming that in her initial character design, someone knew D&D well enough to know that she needed a symbol of Shar somewhere on her outfit for her to be able to cast cleric spells. Which then means that logically speaking it IS her holy symbol.
Since she is the only cleric in game, who needs this (as far as i know Tav doesnt have any holy symbol, Minthara doesnt have any Holy symbol, Goblins have no Holy Symbols, and Duergars neither) ...
And since you can easily take that item off, an her ability to cast remain unchanged ...
And since you can then put the same thing on your Selunite Cleric and nothin happens ...
Dont you think that this is one of those rules that "dont translate well into video game" ?
So, to be clear, if you look at her armor, she has 1 onyx stone on her forehead, and one on each pauldron (shoulder). Biggest ones are on the shoulders. Those could probably be used as golf balls.
Your Tav have X-ray sight? O_o
![[Linked Image from pcgamesn.com]](https://www.pcgamesn.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/baldurs-gate-3-companion-guide-shadowheart-approval.jpg)
![[Linked Image from oyster.ignimgs.com]](https://oyster.ignimgs.com/mediawiki/apis.ign.com/baldurs-gate-3/2/28/Baldur%27s_Gate_3_Shadowheart.jpg)
Since no matter how much i look, i litteraly dont see any on those shoulders ... not a golf balls size, not even a rainbow balls size.
Fact: The ONLY items that could be holy symbols on her are onyx stones.
Source?
(And im not talking about rules ... i ask how your character know this)
I mean for your characters, yes ... there are some black stones on her gear ...
Thats practicaly it.
Hey Lae'zel have Rubies on her armor, is Ruby therefore Vlaakith stone?
Is she secretly Cleric of Vlaakith?
Is Vlaakith giving her clerics different kind of power, that would give them inhuman strength, compared to amount of muscles they have should barely keep their body together?
Fact: She has 3 onyx stones on her gear.
Source?
(And im not talking about rules ... i ask how your character know this)
2 ...
As far as i know.
Fact: She's of the Trickery Domain.
And ... i presume you guessed it ... Source?
(And im not talking about rules ... i ask how your character know this)
I dare to presume this should not require futher comentary.
So, if I'm a brand new player who knows absolute jack poop about Forgotten Realms and I know nothing about Shar or her symbols or anything, shouldn't I be given the common courtesy of at least a skill check so that should I succeed I might learn something about this BG3 major deity and how Shadowheart is dressed like a cleric of said major deity so that by the time I get to her BIG REVEAL
Right now i honestly wonder if you know that you can get all those informations from any books about Shar, that lies litteraly on every corner.
I don't feel like a total idiot moron who has no idea at all who Shar is and only AFTER I get to maybe Grymforge do I start to fully grasp the reality that she is some super nasty evil dark goddess of wickedness who has instructed her servants to murder and torment and kidnap countless untold numbers of people? Shouldn't I, if I succeed in said roll, have the ability to immediately make the decision, "Do I keep this crazy chick in my party who is a servant of such an evil deity, or do I kick her to the curb? I mean, I'm all alone out here. I probably need her to survive, but SHOULD I risk it?"
If rest of your party is Gith, Vampire and Werewolf ...
Some evil deity is least of your problems.
