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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by Topgoon
What would be her motivation for adventuring?
I can imagine any scenario ...
The most cliché would be meeting her later ... surounded by slaughtered Tieflings, hiding behind some crates or something ... with attackers looting/eating (depending on creature) corpses ... after the fight, you start conversation with her, and once she stop sobing, she will swear on her dead friends memory that she will never ever again loose anyone else, that she will become stronger and learn how to defend not just herself, but anyone who cant defend themselves, that she will make sure that nobody ever again will have to suffer losses as she just did.

Voila!
Adventurer created. laugh

Apologies if I sound harsh here, but that would feel incredibly forced, story and mechanics wise.

Nothing in Alfira's current character indicates that her response to further trauma and grief would be to pick up a sword and declare bloody vengeance - in fact, that goes against her established character and destroys her character arc. Watching a loved ones die HAS already happened to her - and the beauty her entire scene/character is that with Tav's help, she chooses to persevere and create art. To live her life, and continue chasing her "itch to perfect a song" despite the horrors of the world. Remember, this is what the Weeping Dawn is about - not only is it a gift / memorial of her deceased teacher, but also overcoming the trauma of seeing her teacher die. "Smile and the pain will fade away"

It's okay to like an NPC and want to see more of them, but to traumatize Alfira into basically an unrecognizable version of herself so there's a story reason to make her a killer like the main party? Is that really the way to go?

Mechanically, it is also narrative breaking. Even if we assume a total civilian will completely uproot her life for revenge, and decide her life mission is to go on a crusade, how exactly does that make her fitting as our companion and adventurer? Is someone who's never held a weapon magically going to level-up to the party's level, and become just as powerful as the party because now she's motivated?

Remember, even in world-lore, a level 1 adventurer is VERY different from a level 1 commoner. Honestly, if this happened, it'd make much more sense for her to just be a quest giver for a "vengeance mission" and we can even make training Alfira into a fun side-quest.

If Larian wants to add a Bard companion, I have faith they'll be able to write one and add one in that works and fits way better as a companion, with an appropriately interesting back story. To force-fit in Alfira as a companion is doing Larian's writing abilities a pretty big disservice. Just because an NPC can sing doesn't mean you should make them into your bard companion. Just like you don't date EVERY single person you find attractive.

Last edited by Topgoon; 29/10/21 10:39 PM.
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Originally Posted by Topgoon
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by Topgoon
What would be her motivation for adventuring?
I can imagine any scenario ...
The most cliché would be meeting her later ... surounded by slaughtered Tieflings, hiding behind some crates or something ... with attackers looting/eating (depending on creature) corpses ... after the fight, you start conversation with her, and once she stop sobing, she will swear on her dead friends memory that she will never ever again loose anyone else, that she will become stronger and learn how to defend not just herself, but anyone who cant defend themselves, that she will make sure that nobody ever again will have to suffer losses as she just did.

Voila!
Adventurer created. laugh

Apologies if I sound harsh here, but that would feel incredibly forced, story and mechanics wise.

Nothing in Alfira's current character indicates that her response to further trauma and grief would be to pick up a sword and declare bloody vengeance - in fact, that goes against her established character and destroys her character arc. Watching a loved ones die HAS already happened to her - and the beauty her entire scene/character is that with Tav's help, she chooses to persevere and create art. To live her life, and continue chasing her "itch to perfect a song" despite the horrors of the world. Remember, this is what the Weeping Dawn is about - not only is it a gift / memorial of her deceased teacher, but also overcoming the trauma of seeing her teacher die. "Smile and the pain will fade away"

It's okay to like an NPC and want to see more of them, but to traumatize Alfira into basically an unrecognizable version of herself so there's a story reason to make her a killer like the main party? Is that really the way to go?

Mechanically, it is also narrative breaking. Even if we assume a total civilian will completely uproot her life for revenge, and decide her life mission is to go on a crusade, how exactly does that make her fitting as our companion and adventurer? Is someone who's never held a weapon magically going to level-up to the party's level, and become just as powerful as the party because now she's motivated?

Remember, even in world-lore, a level 1 adventurer is VERY different from a level 1 commoner. Honestly, if this happened, it'd make much more sense for her to just be a quest giver for a "vengeance mission" and we can even make training Alfira into a fun side-quest.

If Larian wants to add a Bard companion, I have faith they'll be able to write one and add one in that works and fits way better as a companion, with an appropriately interesting back story. To force-fit in Alfira as a companion is doing Larian's writing abilities a pretty big disservice. Just because an NPC can sing doesn't mean you should make them into your bard companion. Just like you don't date EVERY single person you find attractive.

I think you might have failed an insight roll to detect sarcasm there.

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Originally Posted by Topgoon
Apologies if I sound harsh here, but that would feel incredibly forced, story and mechanics wise.
Well, as long as Larian will not pay me to create good story for them i will not. laugh
I never said it would be good implementation, i was merely showing that is is possible. :P

Also, nobody ever said that even larian will implement her good (presuming that they will in the first place ofc.) :P


I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. frown
Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are! frown
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Another thing to keep in mind, all the companions, so far, are made from playable races and classes. We already know that Larian is going to add more companion options, but before they can introduce a Bard one, Alfira or not, they most release the class as playable. Be patient, (hard to do after over a year of EA), but when the Bard class is introduced, they may agree that a tiefling bard would make a great addition.

I think the fact that so many are very familiar with Larian's code and have data mind and modded their games with things Larian isn't quite ready to go live with, (for whatever reason), is part of the problem.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by robertthebard
The initial party has the tadpole in common, not just because "Origin", but because there needs to be a mechanic to incentivize a wildly varying cast of characters to work together.
I believe you are slightly off here ... not necesarily wrong tho ...

Anyway, feel free to corect me, but "Origin" in this context means "playable as Main character" and that would mean (read as: I would expect) that we will experience exactly the same story through eyes of someone else ...
Therefore logicaly all "Origin" character is tadpoled exactly because "Origin".

I really wonder how Tutorial for Shadowheart will looklike ...
will she start in same place as Tav, and in her pod will be some random Sharite Fighter, that will die during ship crash ... or will there be someone entirely different ... or maybe allready corpse ... or maybe her tutorial will start there by being freed by someone else ...
im really curiousl about this.

That's true enough, right up until you pick one of them, or roll Tav, so any time you start a game. After a MC is selected, the others become side characters, but they can't just remove the tadpoles, or there would be no motivation to work together.

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I really would like ALfira as a bard companion, but
isn't there already a bard companion datamined? I thought, the werewolf halfling is a bard?

Otherwise, yes I'm all for Alfira as companion or at least as a recurring character (which I think is very likely)


"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."

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Originally Posted by fylimar
isn't there already a bard companion datamined? I thought, the werewolf halfling is a bard?
I thought she is supposed to be a Druid. O_o
Not sure tho, could be wrong. laugh


I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. frown
Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are! frown
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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by fylimar
isn't there already a bard companion datamined? I thought, the werewolf halfling is a bard?
I thought she is supposed to be a Druid. O_o
Not sure tho, could be wrong. laugh

No, she is mit supposed to be a druid as gar as I know


"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."

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I was just searching some youtube videos about her ...
And you are probably right, there really is "Bard" tag on her ...

But on the other hand, Karlach still have "Paladin" tag, even if every datamined thing we find about her is practicaly screeming "Barbarian" ...
So ... this might aswell be trap for dataminers? laugh
Very clever, Hobbitses! :-/


I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. frown
Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are! frown
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Narrator should be the Bard. You could ask Music when you feel bored. I think this game needs AC Valhalla style Boat Trips, you can ask them to sing or tell stories. Little bit of uplifting for long journeys.

Last edited by GreatWarrioX; 02/01/22 04:30 AM.
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