Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General How old will Jaheira be? Time for math!

It is not Larian Studio's fault, they are working with official source material.

@1varangian, you should stay away from the newly published book "Minsc and Boos Journal of Villainy".
You would see a lot of things that would raise your blood pressure

They ret-con even Aribeth from Neverwinter Night 1.

So ... basicaly, says you.

Yup ... until they are not anymore.

This is simply not true ...
It all depends on what the story will be and how will Larian handle it.
Some could say that to change "epic level character" to NPC that will refuse to join any fight, or will fight somewhere out screen, instead facing the main boss of the are ... is at least just as disrespectfull and ruining. :P

I mean sure, everytime you try to rewrite (or write again) something that was allready written, there is change for you to screw it horribly. :-/ But there is also (sometimes equal) chance to write it respectfully to original and get good outcome, and sometimes even better than original.

Take Witcher for example ...
First game was good, second was reportely (i didnt play it) also good, but third one was FREAKING AWESOME!
Same goes for Geralt.

Anyway if im not misstaken, i have seen this picture exactly on Chubblot's video ... and he said that the face and hair was his own doing.
That is worth mentioning in my opinion, so people dont go on rampage over her look.

It also makes no sense at all. Look at that armor. It's plate armor. How could it only have AC 11? They should have depicted her in common leather with AC 11.

And that's clearly custom plate armor. She'd have like armor class 18 or 19, at the very least, with that armor.

And she doesn't look anything like her previous pics from BG1 and 2. She looks more like an elf from Age of Wonders; Julia or her daughter from Age of Wonders 3.

I hope Larian makes her look more like BG1 and 2. (Although, her pics between BG1 and 2 look considerably different too. Still, at least she looked more like a half-elf druid.) She is half-elf, so looking older doesn't necessarily mean she would need lots of wrinkles and white hair. Still, she's a good 140 years old or whatever the above post said. That's considerable even for a half-elf. She'd probably look kinda like Aragorn at the end of Return of the King. Still good looking, but maybe a few signs of aging; some whiter hair and a few wrinkles but still looking pretty healthy and strong.

https://www.gibberlings3.net/gallery/image/526-jaheira/

Either way, that armor's gotta go. The staff is cool, but the armor does not fit. The face, the hair, kinda works, but if you're giving her that armor, you should take out the whole AC 11 and Barkskin 16 bit. Give her AC 19 Plate Armor, and that would work just fine with the image. (And yes, breast size is ridiculous. Seriously. Can't some fantasy women have normal bust sizes? Do they all have to look like they're about to explode?) Seriously, after BG2, Jaheira had some rocking armor and weapons. If she's still alive by BG3 time, she should still have some rocking armor and equipment. She's been through Hell, literally. The woman should be near-goddess level tough. I mean, they could maybe downplay her stats a bit, accounting for her having retired or something from active adventuring and thus being a bit rusty, but her equipment should still be some killer stuff after all she's been through. I doubt she'd have just sold it all or given it up being that she's still supposed to be a leader of Harpers.

Oh, and by the way, she married Gorion's Ward. IT'S CANON! I said so. The two continued on as heroes and adventurers, helping people and doing good for many, many years to come. Being both half-elves, (Gorion's Ward was a sorcerer as well, btw), they lived a very long, happy life together. That's what happened in BG2, and I don't care what anyone else says. Jaheira DID remarry - Gorion's Ward. Oh, and they had children. One of them may actually be (ahem is) the protagonist of BG3. So says I.

(I have been waiting to create my Gorion's Ward/Jaheira Love Child Main Protagonist of BG3 ever since before EA started. I'm just waiting for the full game release. This is how it is, like it or not.)

End of story.

AD&D used to have some rules for aging, something like this:

Young Adult: Subtract 1 point of wisdom, add 1 point of constitution.

Mature: Add 1 point of strength, add 1 point of wisdom.

Middle Aged: Subtract 1 point (or half exceptional rating) of strength and
1 point of constitution; add 1 point of intelligence and 1
point of wisdom.

Old: Subtract 2 points of strength, 2 points of dexterity, and 1
point of constitution; add 1 point of wisdom.

Venerable: Subtract 1 point of strength, 1 point of dexterity, and 1 point
of constitution; add 1 point of intelligence and 1 point of
wisdom.

For a Half-Elf, the age group onsets were 24, 41, 101, 176, & 251. That does kind of work out for Jaheira, actually. Back to the armor issue, I always imagined druids using the hoplite form, like the ancient Greeks. You can even buy some on Amazon today ... how appropriate.

Nope, that is not the right armor. Jaheiras looks different, very different. I can post a screen tomorrow.

I have to say that this "armor" looks pretty bad.
It's not even armor, it's robe.

Maybe it's just some travel clothes and it shouldn't be used in combat at all.

At least here you see some minimal effort for leather armor.
Although druids should pay close attention to shoulder protection.
Leaves are not exactly the strongest material.

I haven't logged in a few, but guess I'll kick around for this one with the boudoir chest plate and grieves hehe. It's just amusing and then dispiriting to see yet another suit of female armor that fails to protect the vital organs. You know like say the heart and the femural artery lol. I mean those are kind of important to cover up right? Most people won't even attempt light gardening without some gloves on.

The art director could have requested a quick fix and asked the illustrator to add some chain mesh at least. They'd still have been able to keep the sexy cut and trim but at least it'd look more sensible. Or I don't know, give her some bark or stone skins maybe?

Her weapon proficiencies and starting equipment in BG1 were always a bit annoying, fully in da club, but least she could use a shield and wear heavy armor. Nobody had her using the quarterstaff and leather duds I'd wager, once they left the inn.

The old prohibition against druids using metal weapons and armor is a weird and illogical anachronism and I was surprised to see 5e going back to it. If anything a restriction against using equipment made of felled trees or dead animals would make more sense thematically, albiet still pretty silly.

Historical druids belonged to a late Bronze early Iron Age culture, and the Celts of the period were accomplished metal workers. Just look at their iron torques, all the jewelry and elaborately wrought tools! They also struck coins as well, with fanciful designs and ornate embellishments. They certainly didn't eschew metallurgy, which is one of our most ancient arts, and probably exactly the sort of mysteries and secret knowledge their priestly class would have been entrusted with preserving. D&D presents Druids like a Neolithic throwback crossed with a new agey sensibility, but it's always been an oddball concept.

My impression of Elves and Half-Elves from the lore is that they increase in power the older they are, sort of like vampires. By the end of TOB Jaheira is a Heirophant and should have ceased to age already from her Druid class, so whatever conceit they use to bring her back, its probably fine for her to still look all young and beautiful, but it'd have been nice to see her fully decked out. You know with the 'full' plate mail, a tower shield, a dread helm, the root of the problem or belm or something. Her armor in the illustration above would be pretty cool if they didn't ruin it with the lingerie look and exposed parts just to grab eyes. They might as well have given her a garter to hold up her stockings with the thigh high steel pleasers lol.

ps. Is she just a Druid now and no longer a Fighter Druid? Doesn't really mention anything about her being a Fighter in there. You'd think they'd have given her a couple levels as a brawler or at least a mention of martial prowess, since that was kind of her whole combo deal in BG1/2.

A lot of people may not know this, but AD&D druids used to be able to use hammers. Goibhnie was the celtic god of blacksmiths, and he made a bunch of metal objects.

Yes, I found it on his reddit post. He assigned all found items with Jaheira's tag to a model. Even what is there wouldn't necessarily be final.


Would be greatly appreciated. Checking the date this screenshot it almost 1 year old, so something better might have appeared in the later builds.

I bought that book, and while there is some really nice lore and the art is really good, there are definetly some wacky writing. The biggest offender by far for me is

I'm at work currently (I live in Europe) and will upload it in the evening. It's more clothing than armor, but certainly better than the atrocity of that boob armor.

This has to be the least Jaheiric art I've ever seen of her.

How in the hell did the artist manage to screw up her face? They had TWO canon portraits to work with.

Could we just stop using these kind of one liner debunks with no substance that exist solely for provoking further yes-no argument or getting the last word?

Since you apparently disagree, could you rather explain why bringing back the likes of Minsc or Jaheira as low level characters in BG3 would make their story after Throne of Bhaal better rather than ruining it in a cheap attempt to cash in on fan favourite characters?

I must say, I have a hard time with pretty much every character from the Time of Troubles still somehow being alive in 1492. Volo, Jaheira, Minsc, Deekin... I mean Drizzt is drow and could be alive, and Elminster is like immortal, but I feel like it's too much. Somehow, they're all alive and well and haven't aged a day, it seems.

As much as I like these characters, it is a bit too much. It's been over a hundred years since BG2. Some characters should be dead. And if they're not, they certainly should be near godlike in power and strength and such. I mean, I was beyond level 20 in BG2 TOB by the end. Even with age, Jaheira, Minsc, etc. should be super tough and unplayable in BG3. As much as I love both of those characters, it just doesn't make sense to reset them... or at least to reset EVERYONE.

There, again, it's the 'too much" thing. It's one thing to have a one off. Somehow Minsc survived by being frozen in stone for a hundred years. Now, after being released, he's a bit rusty and such from being frozen 100+ years. I could buy that. But having Volo still alive, and Deekin, and Jaheira, and so on and so forth, and they are all somehow nerfed, that's the part I struggle with. And then, to top it all off, you give someone like Jaheira 11 AC armor and baby weapons after she was like a titan? Her quarterstaff isn't even epic in any way. It's like she literally chucked every last good item she ever acquired during TOB. It's Halsin all over again. Here's some supposedly super tough druid who has lived for over a hundred years, but they're babies in comparison to what they should be. Don't get me wrong. She's tough, but she's not tough enough compared to what she should be.

It's like making Darth Vader with stats that a group of Rebel troops could kill. Gang up on him, and blast him until he dies because he's easy to wound. AC 11? God forbid she can't cast Barkskin because of a simple Silence spell. She'd be hacked down in moments by a dozen goblins.

This is the garment in original colouring, someone datmined for Jaheira in the game (without the cape - and the character is one of mine, not Jaheira). I like it, it looks very nice. It is not exactly armor, I guess, but still looks good. It might be some kind of ceremonial garb.



Here it is in another colour in full length (I think, the shoes are different)

As mentioned, it looks more like a ceremonial garb, but I would think, that Jaheira might be pretty high up the ranks by now with harpers and/or druids.


And like G4, I'm not a fan of bringing every single character back. I mean apart from Minsc, Jaheira, Volo there are others rumoured to return. I think, one character seems even to be pretty sure (.
I personally am not a fan of Minsc, so having him thrown at you as a companion, when he by all rights should be dead, is a real bummer for me. But I could live with him being the only one coming back - what's next? Gale is secretly Elminster (now that I wrote it, giving that all the companions are those very special snowflakes, that seems entirely possible)? We run into Drizzt yet again, maybe meet Viconia in the Underdark and Jan is still growing turnips ... just now for some reason in Baldurs Gate?
I'm very much in favor for new characters. I think, the old ones had their story and their purpose.
I'm ok though as long as they don't bring back Anomen - my most hated companion in any gaming fandom.

Well, probably not ...
Since i dont necesary believe it would make their story better, i have no arguments supporting that theory ...

You are the one who claimed that it would be "disrespecting the original games and ruining those characters" ...
So i believed you have some argument prepared supporting that ... so far it seems like your only argument is "i just feel it that way" ... wich is totally fine, no shame in that, but its something that would not allow any futher debate.

What i was trying to say is that every continuing have aproximately same chances to end up great, or complete disaster ... it all depends on too many factors to be certain of either. :P