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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Seems to me like all we really need is Off-hand Sneak Attack ...
And aply SA to AoO, since that is happening outside our turn, so we would not loss any resource ... and therrfore there is little to no reason to not aply that.
This doesn't solve the entire problem. I think you're suggesting that we have dedicated icons for BOTH a normal sneak attack and bonus action sneak attack, correct?

First of all, it is inefficient when you're attacking the same enemy. Attempting (and missing) with your normal sneak attack, then attempting an off-hand sneak attack requires 4 clicks. Click the icon -> click the target -> click the BA icon -> click the target. Whereas, with a toggle, it requires 1 click: click target (with the "attack with both held weapons simultaneously" toggled on.)

Second of all, it exacerbates the problem of hotbar-real estate by needlessly adding another icon. Now sneak attack takes up 2 icons.

Thirdly, it runs into a multiattack problem: if your rogue has two main-hand attacks (from haste or multiclassing), they'll still only be able to sneak attack on one of them and if they miss they get no sneak attack damage.

Finally, and perhaps most importantly, it still doesn't work with special attack-action abilities gotten from multiclassing, special ammunition, etc. Since you can only click one icon for an attack, you'd either be able to sneak attack or use that ability when you should be able to do both. E.g., a rogue-battlemaster figher wouldn't be able to sneak attack + menacing attack at the same time.

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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
First of all, it is inefficient when you're attacking the same enemy. Attempting (and missing) with your normal sneak attack, then attempting an off-hand sneak attack requires 4 clicks. Click the icon -> click the target -> click the BA icon -> click the target. Whereas, with a toggle, it requires 1 click: click target (with the "attack with both held weapons simultaneously" toggled on.)

Second of all, it exacerbates the problem of hotbar-real estate by needlessly adding another icon. Now sneak attack takes up 2 icons.
Wich both are those Quality of Life improvements i was talking about ...
Namely, reducing amount of buttons (or clicks, w/e).

Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Thirdly, it runs into a multiattack problem: if your rogue has two main-hand attacks (from haste or multiclassing), they'll still only be able to sneak attack on one of them and if they miss they get no sneak attack damage.
I dont quite understand where did you get this. O_o
I personaly dont know (yet) how multiattack will be implemented, if you do please share it with us ...

Also, im not quire sure about this, since i dont use the potion (not remembering the name, that one that gives you second Action) too often ... but as far as i know, Sneak Attack should not be consumed if your attack miss ...
So i dont quite understand why would they "get no sneak attack damage" ... they just miss, therefore they get the chance with second attack. O_o

Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Finally, and perhaps most importantly, it still doesn't work with special attack-action abilities gotten from multiclassing, special ammunition, etc. Since you can only click one icon for an attack, you'd either be able to sneak attack or use that ability when you should be able to do both. E.g., a rogue-battlemaster figher wouldn't be able to sneak attack + menacing attack at the same time.
As i said in Edit ...


I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. frown
Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are! frown
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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
But 90+% of the time you'll want to sneak attack on the first attack

While it might be 90% of the time right now, we don't have multiclass fighter/rogues yet. That will change things dramatically.

Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Seems to me like all we really need is Off-hand Sneak Attack ...
And aply SA to AoO, since that is happening outside our turn, so we would not loss any resource ... and therrfore there is little to no reason to not aply that.

Anything beyond that would be just QoL improvements (reduction of buttons mostly)

The only problem there would be friendly fire in case that AoO is provoked ... but since that is different topic (reactions in general) i would let it bw for now.

//Edit:
Oh now i realized that i forget elemental arrows.

You're missing a huge point. Right now you can miss a sneak attack and it is simply gone. You don't get another opportunity.

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Originally Posted by WebSpyder
You're missing a huge point. Right now you can miss a sneak attack and it is simply gone. You don't get another opportunity.
Since i dont use Potion of Speed often (more like almost never).
I indeed dint know this ... but even if i would, i would concider that more like matter for bugreport than suggestion ...
And concidering how many people were complaining around here that Potion of Speed is not even suppose to work the way it does right now ... im not even sure if that bugreport is required (presuming they will adress the problem with potion is reportely not working acording to rules).

I mean, except that there is no way to even use Sneak Attack, since we dont have Off-Hand-SA right now. laugh


I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. frown
Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are! frown
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Originally Posted by CJMPinger
I think Sneak Attack should be made a Toggle. Turn it on, then make an attack. Turns off if the attack hits. That also allows you to mess around with things that would proc sneak attack and get it on the target or attack you want.

+1

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