Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Why I Want More D&D 5e Rules

And my counterquestion is how ...

There are two options IF they prepare the encounter ...
Either make it "random" ... wich should provide some benefits that im askig about.
Or make it "permanent" ... wich in my honest opinion should provide exactly the same theoretical benefits, PLUS it will work for everyone.

In game where you can long rest litteraly any time? Doubt that.

//Edit:
This also isnt true ...

You either create place where enemies can spawn endlessly ...
(Also those enemies would have to be named Bandit, or Goblin, or something simmilar ... since "Random name generators" actualy just gives you random results from list of potential names, no algoritm can "randomly create" names ... so they would repeat themselves sooner or later.)
Wich create both XP and Loot exploit potential.

Or you can let that RNG generate only certain amount of numbers, wich create exactly that "ghost town" you were talking about, once that amount of generated numbers is reached. :-/

The benefits of random encounters are that it creates a sense of danger. At any time, you could be attacked. You never know, even if you've played the game a hundred times and even if you've cleared out every area from all planned encounters. It creates the illusion of a living world, not static where once you've cleared it, nothing lives there anymore. It's just a ghost town. It creates variety and spices up the game so you never know what you might face this playthrough.

Yeah you just coppied the previous message.

I dunno if you expect me now to do anything else than just coppy my reaction ... O_o

I said,We're talking about what would make the game better.

You asked how?

I already told you. So I repeated it because I already said how. You just disagree, which is fine, but what else needs to be said?

And the point is, random encounters on long rests as well, because you can get attacked in dangerous places when resting, so it limits ;omg resting. You know. Realism - a world that feels more alive, and it discourages an even bigger exploit - long rest spamming, because you never know what enemies you might trigger via random encounter if you long rest in dangerous places. Maybe a troll who wipes you because you're already weak. Oh! Shouldn't have rested in a dangerous place.

And why are you okay with other exploits but not okay with random encounters as a potential exploit, which would not happen super frequently, if done right, so they wouldn't be super great exploits? You know, like long rest spamming... Because long rest spamming is a WAY more severe exploit then random encounters happening infrequently.

More like there is logical fault in that argument wich negates itself ...
So it seems more like just random promises, like politicians usualy do "it will be better", "i shall improve that", "we will work on that" etc ... nothing specific, never say what or how they are going to improve ... you are just expected to believe and NEVER to think about it.

But if you dont want to give proper arguments i gues i have no way to force you. :-/

On the contrary ...
This is more argument for resting after every combat.

I mean if there is option that strong troll will attack me on Long Rest, i would rather face it after single combat (when i have part of my spellslot used) than after five (when i have all of them used).

Well if you read it properly you can find out i never said im not okey with it ... i just pointed out that this potential is there.
Also i dont really believe that there are any "lesser" or "greater" exploits ... you either are using them or not, how big advantage either gives you is a matter of personal preferences (and chosen class).

That is what im asking what exactly is your "done right" ...
Either i can run around the place and never find a live soul ... wich negates your argument for bringing more life to the world.
Or i can run around the place and keep spawning another and another enemies ... wich negates your argument for not making it super frequently.
It doesnt really matter if my chances to spawn them is 1:5 or 1:1000 ... question is about limited or unlimited amount, nothing more nothing less.

I mean, i really try hard to understand your vision, but you have to choose some ...
Its impossible to go both left and right at once.

Ok ok enough of this. It seems no one actually read what I said so I shall repeat it.


The DnD classes are not designed for this kind of play. This will break all balancing of the game. I hate random encounters during travel but to add risk to resting to prevent rest spam is the only thing that is going to balance everything out. Casters will become overpowered and Martials/Warlocks will fall off with Long Rest Spam, its a problem at the table, it will be a problem with the game, its a problem with the system as a whole.

In dnd 5e we have a way to help stop random encounters through Watches, where you assign people to 3 watches each night. Elves themselves can easily take up two because they only need 4 hours to long rest, same as other races like them. You roll perception and if its high enough, they can spot trouble or even avoid it entirely. More things could be done like how Wrath of the Righteous does it, with camp camouflage to help conceal, an easy Survival check. This makes the camp not just a safe hub, but an actual interesting place and most of all, it preserves the balance between casters and martials for just a bit longer.

If you don't believe me, then I will ask, how fair is it Martials attacks become easily negated and they become squishier the higher level you go, with them barely putting out the any better damage unless they get good magical items, while Wizard, with a 4-th level slot can cast Vitriolic Sphere, a 20-ft AoE that has a Dex save where its halved if they succeed, but still does 10d4 Acid damage on hit, and if the enemy fails, they take another 5d4 at the beginning of their turn. Casters have millions of spells like this, and if you long rest spam like you suggest, then tell me what happens to the Martials. They become useless.

This is no longer the case of Story or If Random Encounters add life to the world. Could Larian do something to make Martials better? Maybe. Could they somehow limit casters from abusing spells? Maybe. Who knows. Its a big reason no one runs campaigns above level 10. Casters can just solve everything with little to no thought. I already face this balancing enough IRL as it is, and I do not want to get into a game where half of the classes become obsolete after level 6.

Yup ...
And normally we have a GM who keep an eye on when, and where you can or cannot rest ... im aware.
But i believe you are also aware that in PC game this luxury is not an option, so it have to be resolved explicitly ...

And while there is several potential options ...
Larian did good to remember that there are experienced players that are technicaly able to get through whole EA within single Long rest ... and also there are newbies who will need at least 20 Long Rests ...
And you need to keep them both in mind, so some "Long rest only every third battle" is not an option (even tho its quite some time i have seen something like this).

So right now, we have food ...
If you dont need many long rests, you dont need many food ... and therefore you have much more free space.
If you do need many long rests, you need much more food ... and it either block much more of your inventory, or you spend much more time in tedious and anoying moving items one-by-one to the camp and back to your backpack so you can actualy eat it ... its anoying and it is supposed to be anoying, so people are encouraged to avoid it as much as possible ... but if they desperately need it, all they need to do is grit their teeth and endure it for a moment.

That is the thing ... adding risk during travel or during resting isnt going to prevent rest spam ... its going to encourage it.

Right now ... i have fight ... i spend half my spellslots and i can continue ...
Sure i can rest, system allows me to, but i dont *need to* ... my desire to rest is low, since it only keeps me from the adventuring i enjoy.

IF there would be random encounters both on the road and long rest ... i have fight ... i spend half my spellslots and i can continue ...
BUT im aware that in this system, there is constant danger lurking for me behind every corner ... so im in the decision, i can teoreticaly continue at half of my strength and hope it will be enough ... or i can simply go rest and continue on my full power.

Question here is:
Why would i risk Game Over by continuing the adventure without resting?

And remember that we are not talking here about "op skilled überplayers" that can exterminate whole Goblin Camp without using single spellslot ... but also about "newbie" people who in the same battle either use all they have, or die.

It's simply a fact that Long Rest needs to be more restricted. Otherwise they need to start neutering higher level spells which would completely undermine what makes spellcasters cool in DnD. Or start buffing martials with extra abilities, which would mess up the game even further.

I'd really like a good random encounter system that would discourage rest spam without being frustrating. And it would be really cool if elves would get a perk as great watchmen during long rests. Perception proficiency, Darkvision and only need 4 hours of sleep/meditation. It makes sense, great flavor.

I really hope that Panel from Hell 5th edition actually means they are adding a 5th edition difficulty setting in the game that removes most if not all of the bad homebrew meme rules or conforms them to DnD more accurately (e.g. fire Dip requiring a substance because metal doesn't burn). But it's more likely a reference to level 5. Ideally both.

I just really want to play 5th edition instead Larian's whac-a-mole king of the hill shovefest with unlimited long rest mindless spell spam. The meme combat in BG3 is so unsatisfying tactically and stylistically.

Like I said Ragnarok, you disagree. No need to be rude about it and accuse me of being illogical. Just because YOU don't see the logic in things, doesn't mean there's no logic there. Hey. If others agreed with you and told me I'm being totally illogical and there's nothing good at all in what I said, I'd be inclined to wonder if maybe I'm totally off base. However, if you notice, most of what I pointed out as benefits of random encounters, other people have said also.

But you fail to recognize your own contradictions. On the one hand, you're very opposed to people using exploits. Then, on the other hand, you're totally against people potentially using random encounters as an exploit. You have no problems with long rest spamming exploits, and height wins every time exploits and shoving exploits and drinking potions as bonus action exploits and stealth exploits and broken exploits like freezing an enemy in dialogue so you can easily sneak around behind him with every other character and steal everything from that person in real time while that person is frozen forever in turn based mode, and so on and so forth.

But, for some reason, you are so upset about the possibility that someone could use random encounters to increase their loot and experience points? If you receive a random encounter once maybe every thirty minutes to an hour of gameplay, how is that a major exploit in the game? On the contrary, you can literally use stealth in every situation to win, or you can literally freeze an enemy in dialogue, switch to characters not in dialogue or combat, move around in real time and position yourself so you can attack the enemy over and over again from the best possible position, and win every time. Or, spider lair, you can just wait until she's on a web, multiple times, and shoot her down so she loses like 20 HP a drop until she's almost dead.

But most of all, you WANT them to make it so you can long rest all the time so that when the game gets to spellcasters hurling fireballs you can literally use them in every battle, long rest, and use them again in every battle spamming them and making every other class completely obsolete. Makes absolutely no sense.

Random Encounters during travel, if done right, would only add a small element of risk for the purpose of making players be on guard at all times. If you never know when you might suddenly drop into combat, you aren't going to use your high powered spells constantly in case you get suddenly jumped by a troll or a couple of gnolls or ogres or whatever. (I'm not talking just with our little level cap of 4 but thinking of future potential random encounters.) If I know that while I'm prowling the goblin base, I might get suddenly jumped by a couple of ochre jellies, BESIDES all the other dangers there, even though I just cleared out an area of goblins, I might be a bit more careful.

Here's what I mean. I just got done fighting Ragzlin. I have 1 HP for one character, 9 HP for another, 5 HP for another and 4 HP for another. Game has no random encounters, and I know I've just cleared a huge portion of the game map. Inside the goblin base, there are no enemies at all. Now, if there are no random encounters, I don't need to worry about healing at all. Why bother? There are no enemies left. So why should I waste potions? Why should I waste a short rest? I'm good. Area cleared.

But, if there's the potential that while I'm trying to work my way out I might random encounter 2 ochre jellies, or 2 hobgoblins, or 3 more roaming goblins, or 2 giant spiders, or whatever, a sense of danger is created in the game. I COULD risk trying to get out without healing, and I would probably succeed because the chance of a random encounter in the goblin base is maybe 10% chance on a dice roll every 300 feet of movement or something like that. Well, am I willing to risk it, or should I heal just in case I am unlucky and encounter something I won't be able to handle? This creates potential dangers that can occur at any moment, since you won't know when it was that the game rolled the last time to determine if you encounter a random encounter. It makes you strategize and think, and it adds a "living" element to the world. It isn't just some stagnant map where nothing ever changes unless it's scripted, and once you've played the game through once, you know exactly what to expect. You never know when something will jump out at you, so you best not be stupid and continue roaming a hostile camp with very little health, etc.

And, now to Draigo's point, random encounters is meant to prevent rest spam. If you know you could be attacked by a troll if you long rest in goblin camp, but there's no chance of it if you rest in the Druid's Grove, you'll make sure you rest at Druid's Grove and not try to long rest while exploring the goblin base. You make it sound like a troll would be easy to take out, so spam long rest more frequently so you can trigger the troll early. That would be foolish. Why? Because after you've wasted all your spells on the troll, you try to long rest again and might, maybe run into a couple of hobgoblins as well. Now you've wasted HP and spells and items on the troll, AND you might have to fight more enemies, AND you still have the planned encounters to fight. So, spamming long rest in a dangerous location is foolish because you risk constantly dwindling down your resources fighting non-scripted enemies. Makes you strategize and ask yourself, "Should I long rest now or try to keep going? Do I risk it?"

AND, if they prevent you from simply teleporting from anywhere back to Druid's Grove, then it works. OR, if you try to fast travel, they implement a random encounters interruption potential every time you fast travel, symbolizing that you traveled on foot to the nearest portal and there was a chance that you might encounter something on the way. Either way, limiting long rest spamming, as Draigo said, is essential to later levels of spellcasting. (Plus everything else he said.)

And Draigo, one thing we're fighting for IS a more true D&D 5e ruleset BECAUSE classes are already obsolete. Rogues don't have Expertise and are completely nerfed. Clerics are not essential for healing because anyone can use any scroll, potions are all over the place in such numbers it's ridiculous, etc. Everything is so blurred that it really doesn't matter what class you pick, everyone can lock pick just about as easily as everyone else, and so on and so forth. To your point, this will ONLY become worse at higher levels.

+1 to everything you said here.

+1 to everything

And sadly, I have to agree about the class imbalance and I fear for how worse it become if they don't change things. I fear that this game will truly suffer in the long run if things remain the way they are. What will be the point of Rogues, Circle of Moon Druids, ect. when you can just have a party of Casters steamroll everything. What will make Bard special if everyone else already is a Jack of All Trades? 5e already has a very rough class balance as it is, with WotC adoring Cleric and Wizard, who have the most subclasses at 12 and 11, compared to most martials only having about 9 to 10. I honestly don't care how long the game takes to come out if they address the issues, the countless performance issues, the system abuse and cheese. I don't want to see another game where we can literally kill the BBEG with a chest, hell, the fact that we can already kill the cambions, mindflayer, and commander in the very beginning of the game at level 1 in Avernus is an issue. Not to mention if we are suppose to see that general again but you already killed him will be a major world rule break since fiends slayed in the Nine Hells are permanently destroyed.

If they add random encounters, restrict fast travel, or add any other long rest restrictions, please put them in the options so I can turn them off. To me random encounters are boring and slow down the pacing. Same with not being able to fast travel.

To second Icelyn, only if it is an option to turn that off in the game. To me random encounters are interesting when they are part of storytelling, and not a resting or travel mechanics. For example the assassin groups from the Sword Coast Stratagems mod in BG1, Suna Seni in BG2, or Halsin on the evil path in BG3.

I'd say the stale and scripted world we now have that has no surprises, no random elements, (no night time) or any real feeling of danger is boring.

Creatures even move according to a script. That's why we have expert playthroughs where acid flasks are thrown to the spot the Bulette will jump on before it actually does.

Generally the level of metagaming in the hard encounters is absurd. You don't need a scout because after the first time you know exactly who is where and what they will do. Even the basic encounters could do with a bit of variance or randomness. In the Panels, Swen seems to personally enjoy defeating enemies with heavy metagame knowledge though, which is frankly a bit alarming. I don't think RPG's should be about metagaming. To RP, you need to be able to live in the shoes of your characters as much as possible, knowing what they know. Once again an immersion thing.

I'm not at all opposed to a Story mode that removes most of the mechanical challenges. I think Larian should have included at least 3 difficulty levels already in the EA so we wouldn't have to argue about stuff that gets sorted with Story / Normal / Core Rules settings.

About random encounters: I think, they make sense in some areas. I'm currently again in the spider matriarchs lair and after fighting the first group (two spiders and two ettercaps) I'm planning a long rest - since you are now resting inside those caves, there should be chance, that phase spiders attack - I mean, you are literally sleeping in their home. Same with camping in the goblin camp - yeah, they might consider you as an ally for the moment, but they are goblins, nothing is sure with them.

Exactly. Allow people to camp wherever, even in the spider lair, but some places have 0% chance of random encounters like most areas in the Grove. Some 1-5%, like Blacksmith Shop basement. If you leave it open, 5%. Locked 1%. Places like spider lair but you didn't alert anything, 5%. Alerted spider lair, maybe even as big a chance as 50% because you alerted enemies to your presence. Goblin camp when they think you are friendly, 1%. You kill Gut, Ragzlin or Minthara, 50%. Something LIKE that. And I'm talking just rest mechanics. Not travel random encounters.

I usually play on normal in most games, so I would like the options I like to be available on normal as well. I like having combat, just not the boring stuff!

Same for me. It's not about removing the challenge, it's about making it interesting.

The assassin groups from the SCS mod were both tougher and more fun then the kobolds / bandit groups that spawned in the unmodded game.

Oh. I agree. Random Encounters just to spawn baby, boring encounters is not fun. I think it can be done right and make the game feel more alive, dangerous and fun.

What I don't want: Traveling through Moonhaven, random encounter occurs. Stirges. Killed easily. Leave village, wander to bog. Cutscene. Random Encounter out of nowhere. Boggles. Killed easily. Fight redcaps. Long rest in bog. Rest interrupted. Fight stirges. Kill easily. Long rest attempt 2, 3, 4. Stirges, boggles, stirges. Finally long rest on 5th attempt.

No thank you. That's boring as all heck, and yes, BG1 and 2 and IWD 1 and 2 did that. No. I don't want that even remotely.

Yeah not removing the challenge but setting the right kind of challenge would be a better way to say it. I hope they add difficulty options soon. I always play on core rules in every D&D game and like to be rewarded for smart resource management or saving the party's strength as much as possible. And I like it if failure is a real option in a game. And it's always immersion over convenience for me.