Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Combat Pauses EVERYTHING

It's been said before. I'm saying it again. Combat NEEDS to pause everything.

So many examples of how this is breaking the game. This should be a megathread.

Surprise Attack should provide a single round of attack. I shouldn't be able to have part of my party get into combat with someone like Ethel, and make it so she's paused/frozen in combat. Then I can have Astarion or my MC Rogue fire at her from hiding endless times in a single round until she dies because they keep making the Stealth check. I can literally do this with most fights in the game. It's totally broken.

OR, I can lock an enemy in combat and have a Rogue sneak in and rob the entire place blind without an issue because everyone is locked in round one of a fight and not facing the Rogue. Also broken.

Or, as stated in another thread, druids are slaughtering tieflings outside of combat at a MUCH faster rate than you can kill druids you just ticked off...

Or characters die from things while you are in combat and they aren't because you didn't realize they got stuck on something and aren't even in combat with you but are in a cloud of poison dying... And now that you're in combat, you can't get to them in time.

Over and over again, it just doesn't work. PLEASE put everything in turn-based mode when combat is initiated.

I cant help the feeling that starting a combat could use rework as whole ...
Seems weird that when you engage your combat with single character (for example failed sneaking) ... and then rest of your group reach the battle, they have to skip their first turn no matter what intiative they have. O_o
I mean what is reasoning there? They certainly cant be surprised, unless i once again understand the rule wrong.

Yeah it's true... it doesn't work out well at all

Well, stealth is so broken that it's hard to even use and still retain one's dignity.

We know very well why the (bizarre) decision to not “freeze” the world while in combat was made: it’s another byproduct/collateral effect of the focus on co-op multiplayer.

And as much as I’m not a big fan of it, it’s something that could at least work to an extent IF at very least the “time stop” would be extended to anything in a certain radius.

The idea to implicitly exclude anyone in stealth (among other things) even if barely a step away on the other hand SUCKS and it opens the game to so many sequence-breakers and exploit it’s almost hard to keep count.


P.S. it was also explicitly stated at some point that co-op and this discrepancy in the time flow are one of the major reasons they decided to skip a night/day cycle, despise the fact that a relatively simple solution wouldn’t really be that hard to achieve.

This just to say that the next time someone tells you “Multiplayer is just an option and if you don’t care about it, it won’t affect your experience” you can feel free to pat their shoulder and reply “Aren’t you full of shit?”.

But as we know from interviews, Larian (or it seems that way at least) concider many exploits acceptable, bcs there are people who are using them ... therefore they want to exploit the game anyway. O_o

I mean, you have to admit there is some logic in there.

More likely, it's too difficult for them to make changes to the engine. It's clearly another thing just transferred over from DOS. On the other hand, perhaps this particular thing should be rather simple to fix... maybe, like suggested earlier, they could just expand the radius... but that might mean involving all sorts of creatures into every fight... unless they can make those creatures that are not directly involved just do nothing, and not even be included in the turn order.

at the very least they should explicitly explain what happens as i just get frustrated and don't understand shit as to what happens when several characters are in stealth and a battle commences... Now it's like 'not sure if bug or feature but infuriating nonetheless'

Hmmm... look who grew the understanding (at least some) of the rule and switched camps! Welcome, buddy!

Anyway… We already had a somewhat big conversation on the matter here https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=96730&Number=760775#Post760775 and this thread https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=806332#Post806332, while has a different title, is pretty much all about the same. Maybe we should call moderators and ask them to merge it all?

All hail for actual turn-based for our turn-based game!

Simple: characters who weren't present when combat started should take time to actually reach the combat, represented by them missing the first turn of combat. Realistically they should be entered into combat regardless of their location, but this could result in them having to spend many (possibly 5-10 or more) turns just dashing toward the combat. Allowing them to enter combat with only a 1-turn penalty is a compromise.

Alternatively, Larian could expand the combat-pausing radius so that these characters can still act on the first turn they enter combat, but are so far away that they have to spend a turn dashing to be within fighting range. Though this would nerf melee characters compared to ranged ones, since melee characters would always have to spend more turns dashing to be able to hit something...

That's what I'm calling for. A megathread with all of it combined. The game REALLY needs it. This is kinda a big deal. I mean, would I continue to play the game if they don't fix it? Yes. Will it bug me? Yes. Will I constantly have to stop myself from exploiting the janky system? Yes. It's not impossible for me to make myself avoid exploiting their gimmicks, but it is frustrating to have to do so. It'd really be nice if they fixed it.

Oh no. That doesn't work towards that in the game. Your characters are often forced to skip first turn even if they were 5 steps away.

I don't understand the radius suggestion. The whole world should pause. Then, all within sight range of the combatants should be included in initiative/combat. So, you walk into Moonhaven. You trigger the fight with the goblins on the building. All goblins in range of the PCs and the goblins who can see the PCs should be triggered for combat; thus simulating that the goblins can even call in others close by to help them kill you. They've already got their little sight range bubble things. These could be used for combat purposes. However, since none of those NOT in combat aren't moving, they can't just accidentally wander into the fight while you are attacking those in combat with you. However, if you and/or those goblins in the fight move too close to other, frozen, NPC's, they get triggered to join the fight. So, if while you are trying to skirt around some of the buildings, you run into Lump and his 2 ogre buddies, wandering into their line of sight, you would pull them into the fight. Otherwise, they stay out of it and are simply frozen in time. Same with the goblins on the south side of Moonhaven or the bugbear asleep on the north side of the blacksmith's shop. Unless combatants draw them into the fight, they simply stay frozen.

Why would that be so hard? I would actually think that would be easier to program and implement. Nothing moves unless it is drawn into the fight.

Now, for multiplayer, even if a player is off in lala land far away from another, if one player is drawn into combat, the other is also regardless of distance. This might be frustrating to the players, but ultimately aren't they supposed to be playing the game together anyway? Shouldn't they be relatively close together anyway? And if they aren't, then it still makes the most sense that the player far away from the fight only gets to move one round at a time so they aren't Fast Traveling from the Risen Road to Ethel's lair deep underground all within one round of combat between one player and his/her team and Ethel. If they split up, they should not be able to gimmick the game and have one player speed across the board to help rescue the one who got into a major fight without them.

Well, that's the way I see it, anyway.

I just can't abide these stupid decisions being made on the altar of co-op play. Realistically the percentage of people playing co-op is likely to be a minority.

It IS a feature used just by a minority of users and the same was true for DOS 1 and 2.

Incidentally it’s also a DEFINING feature that distinguishes the product from other titles and something that makes journalists and reviewers ecstatic (even if they don’t actually use it), which is why it would be completely pointless to complain about it or ask for its removal.

It’s also why GM4Him’s insistence that “the entire world should just freeze” is never going to fly. Larian want the second (or even third and fourth) player(s) to be able to go on on their own business without being tied to what the host is doing.

Fair enough, to an extent, but they should STILL end caught in the turn-based dynamic when close enough to an ongoing battle, EVEN IF SNEAKING IN STEALTH.
It’s not an absurd demand, it’s not a deal breaker for player agency, etc. It’s only fair that as a player you may end up involved in shit some other player started, even if you didn’t ignite the reaction.

And when it comes to the “asymmetrical flow of time” that would make day/night cycle “very complex to do in multi” the solution/workaround is something I already talked more than once about and it would actually be trivially easy to solve: freeze the clock (but not necessarily the real-time flow) for EVERY PLAYER when one of them is involved in a turn-based battle.


“B-but that would create days of variable length depending on how much time players spend in battles”.
Yeah? So fucking what?

Pausing the whole world really isn't needed, though, is it?

Would it not be better to work within the framework they have (radius pausing on beginning of combat) to expect an actual change to get implemented. With that in mind, only a few changes are really needed:

1) Increase the radius of actors that would pull things into active initiative rolls for combat (300ft?).
2) If you perform any action that directly affects or indirectly affects anyone or anything within the radius of any actor, you roll for active initiative for that combat and is paused before said action is performed.
2a) If your initiative roll is higher or equal to the current initiative, you are placed next in turn, as you have not had your turn yet (no skipping a turn of combat). You still maintain the initiative you rolled, meaning if you rolled a 19 and current combat was at 12, you will act next (Dex to break ties) but the next round of initiative, you will get your turn as normal (at 19).
3) Anyone who has failed to see an actor but is within an actors radius range is still pulled into initiative combat but can't act/see the particular actor/actors (AI can't make decisions on those it can't see/players just don't see the AI who they failed to detect).
3a) If two actors fail to detect each other and are within radius range, but others within radius range do not have initiative, then no initiative is forced upon you.

Basically, if the radius around an actor is 300ft and if that is within range of anyone that has initiative going, you will automatically have to roll for initiative and proceed as turn based. If you perform an action that is targeting in some way within another actor radius that has initiative, you will be pulled into initiative (think of you are 470ft away and you cast fireball at the ground 320ft away from an actor but the area of effect is 20ft, that area of effect is within 300ft of an actor with initiative and will cancel your action and roll for initiative).

This still allows for players to be 301ft away from any actor in initiative, cast buff spells on you quickly while the other actors might be able to just sit there doing nothing, but as soon as you get 300ft away, you will be pulled into combat, and 300ft would take you several turns to get into range.

This also fixes the stealth issues in that if you are stealth and no AI enemies can see you but you are within 300ft of a friendly person who is in initiative, you will automatically go into initiative. If you are the only one stealth and nobody else within 300ft is in initiative, you can proceed as normal until an action is performed (anything other than movement). As soon as you perform an action, you and everyone else with 300ft of you are pulled into initiative, along with everyone else who is pulled in, they will pull in those within 300ft. Think of it like a chain reaction, checking, pulling in those who are pulled in each time, until all actors have been checked and nobody else gets pulled in. This should resolve any/all stealth combat weirdness that is happening right now.

The rolling of initiative and coming into combat mid way, you will not lose your turn, but actually would have acted like you delayed your initiative to the current initiative (if you rolled equal or higher) or will proceed as normal if rolled lower than the current initiative. This keeps people from not losing their turn if they were to come in later. Of course, coming into combat will guarantee you are at least 300ft away, making you take several turns to get in to range to do something.

At least, this is how I view would resolve their problems that I see off hand in the few play throughs I have done.

Which is precisely how D&D actually works.

Why? Is the feature supposed to be co-op or simulated MMO? If it is cooperative then you are still a party working toward a party goal and when part of the party goes into combat everyone should be rolling initiative and doing their own thing on their own initiative.

Sounds pretty odd. I would need to play the game to test it myself.

I think Larian is wasting their time with co-op, they aint gonna get many players if asked from me. Even Dragon Age 4 isnt gonna do MP.

From singleplayer perspective I would prefer for the world to stop moving forward (like Fallout1&2).

Larian doesn’t want that for coop reasons - and I don’t think it is a game breaker, but current implementation is lacking. I think engagement bubble should be bigger and should include everyone - animals, neutral character, stealth characters etc (at this moment I can’t precisely remember what applies to BG3 and what to D:OS2).

I wonder if Larian is lacking a crucial system to make it work as we would envision - like NPC awerness. So far it seems that someone entering engagement bubble equals them being aware of everything that is happening and joining the fight. I had some NPCs join Harpy fight - I imagine that if bubble was bigger half of the camp might be drawn over.

At the same time, they do have unaware neutral NPC behaviour that they use when player enters turn based mode out of their own free will - with NPCs following their routines but not entering combat. I suspect however, that player initiated turn based and combat are two different systems.

And some decisions (like stealthed characters not being included in combat) perplexes me since D:OS2.