Originally Posted by Leucrotta
I'm all for stupid choices having consequences. I like seeing 'nonstandard game overs' in video games and I don't like it when games make it feel like your character can't fail. I don't like to see 'bad' choices result in a lesser experience with less content however.

As an example, In a book or tabletop game, a poor choice or outcome (like losing a fight) might result in the party being captured. That's just another exciting new chapter in your adventure/the hook for next week's D&D session! A frequent occurrence with video games I see however, is that failure or poor choices often just lock you out of content. quests fail, you don't get the reward, there's no follow-up, etc. A complaint I have voiced before in regards to evil choices in BGIII is that evil choices often feel like they are treated as 'wrong' choices and result in you being cut off from content without any equivalent experience to replace it with.

Absolutely agree with this.

Originally Posted by mrfuji3
+1. Especially since you can reload in a video game.

In a tabletop session, yes it is dumb to attack an Adult Red Dragon at low levels. But - and I recognize this is a very polarizing topic - some people would argue that DMs should adjust situations to the party's decisions and not kill characters. Please don't focus on whether you agree with this statement. All I'm asking is that you acknowledge that some players will be very attached to their characters and not want them to die. In some heroic-fantasy games, player death is not expected and the DM will come up with other punishments/results of characters' actions (see @Leucrotta's post above).

In BG3, if the Red Dragon attacks me with its full might and TPK's my party, then that's a great! I get to experience the consequences of my actions - getting my ass handed to me - but then can reload and still have the characters I like playing with. Additionally, this opens up the possibility for challenges: I might try again and again and again to beat this dragon, feeling real triumph if I eventually figure out a way and win after countless grueling battles. This possibility is lost if the dragon just flies away when you attack it, or it every enemy we face is scaled to be at a level we can easily win against.

Phrased Differently: Video games can be more punishing than tabletop because it is much less effort to reload than to create new characters
.

Agreed. The reload function makes the experience much easier than a TT-session. Although I'd argue that, like Leucrotta said, death shouldn't be the only possible outcome of every "stupid" decisions, but certain death is certainly better than pretending nothing happened. In this particular case, a full player team wipe could be the answer. Downing the majority of the party while one got away with low health and thus can help the others up (and I definitely want to hear the party whine about the character decision back at camp later on :'] ), being captured could be another (although not sure that makes sense in this particular case), or perhaps one of the companions could butt in and try to disarm the situation by singing the dragon's praises. Imagine Gale jumping in trying to talk us out of the situation, perhaps bribing it with gold from our inventory (that our character can either refuse, support or ignore), and depending on the result the dragon either flies away with our gold or ... Burn the party down to the ground. :]

Also, I really want to mention that I'd even say that *most* players are really attached to their characters when it comes to TT and that *most* would rather attempt to metagame a bit rather than RP themselves into a certain death. In a TT-game, it can really put players in an awkward position if the DM often have high CR enemies that either forces the party to wipe or being rail roaded into a certain story path.

Don't get me wrong - if it happens once in a while then that is *mostly* fine with me as that is totally something that could happen - sometimes enemies are simply stronger than you are. BUT, only as long as the DM handles the situation well.... But seriously, forcing a party of ... Let's say low level, good alignment paladins to stand face to face with an adult red dragon might demand that the players either A) wipe, because dying heroically trying to stop it is what their characters would do despite certain death - or B) metagame, and try to figure out a RP-reason why afterwards. is kind of a douche move, imo.

Last edited by Dez; 29/01/22 03:36 AM.

Hoot hoot, stranger! Fairly new to CRPGs, but I tried my best to provide some feedback regardless! <3 Read it here: My Open Letter to Larian