Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Why I Want More D&D 5e Rules

So. Ladies and Gentlemen. I believe it is time to admit defeat. It is clear that Larian is moving FURTHER away from D&D 5e rules and stats, preferring to create more superhero gameplay mechanics like chucking 9 pound cats across a span of 1,000 feet so it can land in shadows in a spider lair and then easily use stealth to avoid phase spiders - and this is called clever gameplay and master strategy.

It is therefore clear. We will not likely receive a true D&D 5e experience here, nor shall it be likely even close. After a year and a half of fighting stupidly for this, Larian has made it clear by slapping us in the face with even MORE ridiculous mechanics that completely disregard D&D and the world of Faerun.

This said, I will likely no longer post to this thread. Game over. Flag waved. The memes win.

From this point on, just gonna try to enjoy the game as best I can. My dream for a better BG3 has ended. What hurts most is that it was killed by the Barbarian class... The one class I've been wanting from the beginning.

And now. Taps.

Brrr brrr brrrrrrr. Brrr brrr brrrrrrr. Brrr brrr brrr. Brrr brrr brrr. Brrr brrr brrrrrrr. Brrr brrr brrr. Brrr brrr brrrrrrr.

Op be like

I mean no disrespect just wanted to say kiss your 5e rules good bye.

As a tabletop player of 20+ years I can understand your frustration, and felt the same way as I was watching this game develop without being able to play it as I didn't have a powerful enough PC. Now that I have, and have just come off the back of a full Patch 6 co-op playthrough, I can say I had an absolute blast. All the silly yeeting and whatnot is just so much fun when you're playing together. I can see why Larian have gone in this direction and I have to just live with the fact that it's something different, its own thing. I've done some solo too, and it's definitely not as much fun – although still enjoyable.

THIS IS AWESOME xD

Well, the closer it is to core, the easier it can be fixed by modders, in my opinion. Meaning, the less time it will take them to right the wrongs of Larian's short-sighted design philosophy. So, I don't think it's a futile endeavor. But, yes, it can be discouraging.

Considering how people completely reworked Divinity OS2, Im expecting a total rework mod to come out in the future as well. Then both sides can be happy.

And, we're back. People are once again crying out for 5e.

Because of Shove.

https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=808775#Post808775

I'm telling ya, this should be a megathread.

Not that it probably matters. Party of 6, Camping, Day/night, movement, all megathreads. Still not implemented.

Sigh.

I agree with this topic.

And even if the point of view ofLukasPrism about he multiplayer mod is interesting.


BG3 shouldn't be create only for multiplayer mod.

Anyway, this is just a DOS3 with nice BG3 clothes and it's not working really great.
I mounred over it a year ago...

Replaying Solasta. Gotta say, it really drives me crazy that they aren't making BG3 combat more 5e. Solasta combat is so much better. it is just so much more balanced and well done.

Ugh. Drives me nuts that BG3 is so NOT balanced.

Oh, hey. That looks pretty cool. I may have to install Windows on my Mac again to play.

Joe

Did you see these Solasta snippets showing proper 5e shove?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZXI3b_SFXX0RanDOVe88mN0e97DmWoZT/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WzLP0P-y1GfBeU7rbw7TnqHR39Yord1Q/view?usp=sharing

SO much better.

I actually did record 20 minutes of Solasta combat and wanted to post it, but I can't seem to get it to work. 😞

REALLY shows how BG3 COULD be tactical if they just did 5e better.

And, I must bring up the harpies again. SO annoying. They fly and throw stones. I come to get them. They fly higher so they can constantly get their +2 height bonus to AC and Attack.

What about making them what they are! Flying multiattacking claw slashing, club smashing melee brawlers who can charm you with their song and then fly down and bash you in the head. Instead, they fly and throw things at you, turning the entire battle into ranged fest or they make you chase after them. So frustrating.

I don't mind some variation, but a more true to 5e approach would really make that fight less annoying.

I mean, I get that you want to use the terrain in the fight. That's cool, but maybe there's some other way than having them constantly playing keep away rock throwers.

And the harpies would spread out their Luring Songs. Have one use hers. When enemies have snapped out of it, THEN another uses hers. A harpy can only charm you once, but you have to roll again for each new harpy's song.

So the harpies need to work together better. Should be first harpy sings, the others swarm in for the kill while those who failed are charmed. They focus on the PCs, leaving Mirkon alone because he's squishy and can be killed easier. They're more worried about taking out those who are charmed first.

Swoop down, bash with club and take with claws. Two hits per round. Now THAT would be a tough fight, and it wouldn't be all about chasing them around and trying to just get high enough so they don't get height bonus.

They have Solasta for Mac now.

Imersion no longer suits us?

I mean it makes perfect sense doesnt it? They have hands -> they can throw things. And there is plenty rocks around.

It's not about immersion, RagnarokCzD. It's about using the harpies' Creator-Given combat mentality and tactics.

Imagine running into a pack of wolves that didn't attack as a pack. That's what most of the creatures are like in BG3. They don't behave as their creature race says they should.

Here's how harpies should act. One sings. Maybe one or two characters are charmed. The rest of the harpies swarm down and attack the charmed one before they uncharm. They land within melee range and begin to use claws and their club, two attacks per turn in melee combat, to try to kill the charmed one.

Or, as an alternative, they DON'T attack the charmed one(s) for they are making their way slowly towards the singing one. They instead focus on bashing and slashing the ones NOT charmed to try to finish them off either before the charmed ones break the charm or they reach the singing harpy who then starts wailing on them.

Two attacks, one with claws and one with club, have much more damage potential than throwing stones from a distance, and it's far less annoying to not have to chase after them across the board, climbing higher and higher to try to get on even ground with them. They instead drop down to you and pummel your characters at close range. 3 out of the 4 harpies, if not all 4, should surround you and beat you. When you break out of one harpy's song, another starts to sing to charm you again.

Trust me, that would be a tough fight, and it wouldn't be nearly as annoying as chasing after them up the cliffside just so you can get on the same level as them so you don't get a -2 to hit them.

My point is that Larian is trying to make more options for combat. That's what they've said their goal is, or so I thought they said this anyway. However, all they are really doing is stripping D&D 5e options and making them obsolete, and then they are creating their own that you can spam, or HAVE to spam, over and over again.

So, instead of simply Attack, now you must get on even ground with your opponents and/or higher ground so you can hit better. Trading one option for another, honestly more annoying, option.

In Solasta, height isn't as big of a deal. Cover provides +2 to target AC for Ranged Attacks, but height doesn't. So, I'm not constantly fighting to get to higher ground than my opponents. I need to work to get into better position maybe, because they've got cover, but I'm not fighting with winged harpies just to get on an even playing field so I can hit them WHEN THEY CAN FLY.

Over and over again, in just about every scenario of the game, you have to strive to get higher. At least, thank God, they got rid of height advantage, but it's still there with the +2 AC/+2 to Hit. So, goblins, spiders, drow, duergar, harpies... pretty much everything in the game, is constantly trying to "Get to the high ground."

And that is my point. Can we have some variety? D&D is FULL of various monsters all with different attack strategies and abilities. If you're using harpies, make them swarm PCs. Let them use their multiattack abilities to claw and club people.

Imagine Gale, Wyll, Lae'zel and Tav on the beach. Harpy sings. Gale fails. Wyll fails. You have Lae'zel and Tav. 3 Harpies swoop down and surround you. That's 6 attacks in one round. They swarm Gale. In one round, Gale is on the ground bleeding out. Tav is a cleric and heals Gale to get him back on his feet. Lae'zel attacks one harpy with Menacing Attack. Success! Harpy is scared. She uses Action Surge and attacks again. Menacing Attack succeeds. 2 Harpies scared.

Round 2. Wyll starts moving towards the singing harpy. Attacks of opportunity. One of the harpies is close to Wyll and gets a free hit. Wyll is alive, but he's lost 6 HP. He snaps out of it because the damage done to him allows him to reroll his Save. Wyll's back in action. He Eldritch Blasts the first harpy Lae'zel attacked. She goes flying backwards because he has the knockback ability (forgot what it's called right now). A new harpy sings. Lae'zel is now entranced and so is Wyll. Dang!

But Gale is free, and there are two harpies near him that he could attack with Burning Hands. He positions himself to hit both and fires. Ah! Satisfying damage. They both failed. Then they soundly bash and slash him again. This time, it only takes one of them. The other goes after Tav to try to take her down while her companions are charmed. Smash and slash. Tav is hit once. 8 HP off. Tav is forced to heal Gale again. She can't attack because she's struggling to keep her allies alive. Lae'zel makes her way towards the singing harpy. So does Wyll. The harpy that Wyll blasted is scared, so she can't even make her way up to the PC's. NOW it would make sense to have her pick up a stone and throw it as an Improvised Weapon.

Round 3. Wyll doesn't snap out of his charm. He walks right up to the harpy that is singing. "Ah, sweet music." Since he is so close, the harpy can't resist. Let's see how Tav does trying to revive 2 fallen allies. The harpy bashes and slashes Wyll, reducing him to 0 HP. Gale is up, though, and he's bringing his magic back to try to help save Tav. Thunderwave! Both harpies go flying into the river. Lae'zel snaps out of her charm. She rushes the harpy Wyll sent flying. It's already weak. If she can finish it... She rushes up and hacks at it with Menacing Attack. SUCCESS! The harpy dies. Only 3 more to go. Tav runs up to Wyll and heals him. DANG! Tav's really being put to work! Guess it was good to have a cleric around, eh? The harpies return. Wyll and Gale are both taken down by one harpy a piece because, you know, they get two attacks each with club and claw, and Tav can't heal that much each time. The third one goes for Tav. One hit and one miss.

Hmmm. Actually, this fight sounds too tough for a party of 4, doesn't it? Maybe they should allow us to have a Party of 6 instead.

Ah. At last, I got the video to work.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ujqM1gJtaYn3ziJ3Xs6OQjlwOzhYjbvt/view?usp=drivesdk

Here is a video of Solasta combat gameplay. This is what Baldur's Gate 3 COULD play like if they used more RAW D&D 5e combat. Now, let me make this very clear. I'm not saying I want BG3 to play EXACTLY like this, nor do I think the UI is exactly how I would like BG3's UI, BUT what I'm saying is that BG3 could be WAY more balanced with plenty of combat options still being brought to the table IF they implemented more of the 5e rules.

Also note how easy the UI is to read, and note how easy it is to find everything. Notice also how quick it is to find options in the UI and to select them and focus more on the game and not on trying to find all the various skills and abilities. Notice how Reactions work and how special abilities like Smite work. Quick. Simple. Straightforward. KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid. That's what Tactical Adventures did, and it works well.

Now, that said, they REALLY could have improved their controls simply by providing hotkeys. Spacebar to end turn instead of having to click on the End Turn button, a hotkey for stealth, a hotkey for spells, being able to hit escape to close a menu instead of clicking on Abort... All those things are annoying in Solasta. They really would have benefited from providing hotkeys and allowing players to customize their hotkeys. Also, the UI in Solasta is also a bit too big, and their mini-map is virtually useless. It's just more of a radar than a map. You have to pull up the mini-map via the M hotkey (so there are a few hotkeys). There isn't a convenient mini-map for you right on the screen.

But notice how all the Actions are on the left. All the Bonus on the Right. When I hover over enemies, it automatically switches to Attack icon. If I want to attack with offhand first, I simply go to the Bonus Action Attack and click it first. Then I select my enemy. And notice how after my first attack is done, if I hover over the enemy it is auto-switching to the Attack icon. So, if I want to attack 2 times in a row, I don't need to press the Attack button. I can just hover over my enemy, Attack, hover over enemy again, Attack. Simple. Easy. Not a lot of back and forth.

And see how simple the switch weapons icon is? And notice how if you switch to one you can't switch back. Oh my goodness! You mean, it doesn't make sense to be able to pull out a bow, nock an arrow to it, fire, put the bow away, and pull out your sword and shield again just so you can benefit from the shield's extra AC? Yes! It makes no sense. If you switch your weapons, you can't switch back in a single round. (Now, that said, I think Solasta is a bit TOO strict on this. If I switch to melee to see if it would be better to use my melee weapon, I'd like to be able to switch back to ranged again if ranged is a better option. As long as I haven't actually attacked, I'd like to be able to see my options. Solasta locks you into the weapons you switch to whether it's good or not. That sucks! Don't want that.) And notice how straight the arrows fly. No weird arcs and jazz. Clean. Crisp combat. Ahhhh!

Anyway, there are so many things I could point out, but watch the video and imagine how BG3 would be if they simply used more strict 5e rules like Solasta.

That is exactly what im talking about ...
Imagine you are intelligent (or at least sentient) creature with both wings and hands ... with opposite thumb ... so you are totally capable of graping and throwing stuff.

What reason in every Hell you would have to "swoop down and fight in meele" while your greater advantage over litteraly everything except other winged creature with both wings and hands ... is that you are totally capable to fight from safe distance?
Especialy since you are living on such place as this rocky cliff, that is litteraly FULL of potential amunution?

//Edit:
I would understand the idea: Try to charm them ... slit throats of those who are charmed, before they wake up ...
But anything else is willingly put yourself in danger ... for what benefit exactly?

Throwing stones. 1d4+1 damage (5 max), or at least it SHOULD be, but Larian has them dealing up to 8 damage per stone somehow (based on last playthrough). Regardless, slashing with claws and bashing with club. 14 HP potential damage (2d4+1 and 1d4+1). The entire tactical advantage of harpies is Luring Song, Charm Targets, swarm them, kill them fast.

But yes. IF that tactic fails and their targets start to win the fight, THEN it makes sense to maybe have them start to take tactical advantage of flying away and hurling stones.

Well ... improvised weapons (stones) were added only just now ...
So it makes sence that Larian had to implement some kind of ranged attack for them ...

It would be great if they would change it ... even better if they would prepare lets say 5-10 "heavy rocks" for them, so they are "prepared to hunt in their usual spot" (and to provide players who first scout their suroundings to sabotage this plan)

Do rocks have the same range as a Long Bow? Since everything seems to be the same 18m in BG3. Rocks should have a really crappy range and suffer from Disadvantage outside that. They are not actual weapons.

Throwing rocks is more of a joke when talking about combat. There could be a situational rock drop for the Harpies close to their lair but yeah they should sing and swoop down to claw you mostly.

Other than that, I rather like the fight. Using Jump to hunt them down is very satisfying.

But overall, Larian needs to control the urge to give enemies teleport abilities and ranged weapons. Harpies throwing a rock or two is fine, but the Phase Spiders spitting poison and devil pigs jumping over tanks in a tactical chokepoint are not.