Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback SHOOOOOOOVE

It would also help to tie Shove to a feat, most likely Tavern Brawler, since that feat is very underwhelming but it lets you grapple as a bonus action. I dont know if this has already been mentioned, but it just makes the most sense if they HAVE to keep shove in the game. All I know is if they add in a certain Vampire Count and I can shove him off his iconic castle to instakill him, I would like a refund because this is not why I bought the game.

I think we're arguing in the same direction. What I mean is, I know that what you originally theory crafted would be a great way to take some garbage that Larian put into BG3 and make it balanced and workable at the table, if a little complicated. The only reason you had to do that theory crafting in the first place, though, is to try and reverse transfer some broken Shove and circus-act Throw mechanics that, for my money, have no place at the table anyway. It's also true that if Larian gave even one ounce of a f*&% about D&D rules mechanics, they COULD implement your idea into the game, and it would make things sooooooooo much better than they are, at least from my point of view. My contention is that Larian doesn't care, at all, about the rules of 5e, so trying to explain to them how to better implement something in the game via a well thought out, articulate, and from what I could tell all but flawless set of workable tabletop mechanics is perfectly pointless. I'm sure when somebody starts talking about D&D 5e rules the devs at Larian just hear the sound Charlie Brown's teacher makes. This is exactly why they are putting in stupid as the seventh layer of the hells Shove and Throw options to begin with. It's also why they are taking valuable mental energy and crafting "magic" items that have weird, random if/then contingencies in them, rather than just figuring out how to code all of the magic items that currently exist in the sourcebooks, and placing them in the game at appropriate spots, as well as allowing for random drops that happen exactly as the tables in the DMG suggest. What I'm saying is, in order for anyone at Larian to care enough about coding these things correctly they'd have to first care about the tabletop mechanics. It's clear that they don't. If we want them to change something we have to stop talking to them in terms of the actual game that this video game is supposed to be based on. That connection of source material to this game waved a hearty good-bye when Patch 7 came out, if not a long time before.

Since I am on a Mac I haven't had an opportunity to play the new update. But wrapping up my latest playthrough and still trying to figure out how a gnome has enough strength, leverage, and agility to push my tank over 30'. This is absurd. Too absurd. Like Dada absurd. This mechanic is broken and now it sounds like the next update puts it on 'roids. Why even have weapons?

Looks like it is time for another year hibernation. Hopefully this will get ironed out by then.

On the plus side, I'll regain 90 gigs of hard drive space for another year.

Enjoy and good luck!
Joe

Either you have high STR Athletic skill, Acrobatic skills in DEX or just mind which character is standing where.
Theres allways a way to protect yourself from beeing shoved too often.

My new Barb has Entertainer Background and with his different bonus from armor and skills i am curious if my Barb (Eagle Wildheart/Totem) gets ever shoved around.

Barbarian Shielddwarf (Wildheart: Eagle)
Lev 3
17 Str +6 Athletics (Prof + Metal Gloves +STR)
15 DEX +4 Acrobatics (DEX + Background Entertainer)
15 Con
8 Int
12 Wis
8 Cha

Depending which Safety Roll will be made, itll be interessting what happeneds when someone shoves. How more or less annyoing it can get.

You would think that, wouldn't you? Yet here we are.

Joe

Agreed. There is NOT always a way to protect yourself.

60 feet from edge. Enemy shoves 30 feet. Second enemy shoves another 30 feet. Character is in lava all before they get to go once.

Oh, and because it's a Bonus, both duergar get to still turn and hack at other characters that same turn. So, kill one character and hack at 2 more.

I don't like having to build my Wizards and Clerics around resisting constantly being Shoved into lava or pits. I'd rather play a role playing game instead of a min-max slapstick combat game where every character is an Entertainer or Soldier for Athletics / Acrobatics proficiency.

I don't mind being vulnerable to Shoving, but I do mind being Shoved 30' instead of 5' which makes tactical positioning away from ledges completely irrelevant.

Bring up some wings or cast levitation spells Flying creatures cant be shoved right?

I'm generally agnostic about the whole RTwP vs Turn Based debate, but this may be the best argument for real time w/pause yet.

Joe

They can. Plus shove is avaible from the start to everyone and levitation spells are not.

That is unfortunately not true. With how long shove arch reaches, and how it furthers the shove distance with a slightest of slope in terrain there are encounters where avoiding getting shoved to death becomes no. 1 priority. Shove should be tactical utility tool, not no. 1 hazard to avoid on every turn.

See, though, my concern is that it won't get ironed out, ever. I'm concerned that I paid for what I thought would be a very true-to-5e-rules video game, and what I'm going to actually get, when the full game releases next year (if it even does), is going to be so far removed from that, that I won't want to even play it. There are enough voices on these forums echoing how broken some of these things are, and as of yet there have been precisely zero attempts to assure the community of players that these things are just in test mode because it's EA, but because we care about you, the players, they will be dutifully nerfed in later releases. In fact they haven't addressed them at all. It's like they decided Shove was fun for them, so who cares what the people who actually bought the game think. They thought it was so fun that they thought they'd add Shove-on-steroids because why not, because they like playing around with the physics of the game engine to see what kind of circus-act wackiness they can make work. Really glad Larian devs are having so much fun programming stuff that has no basis in D&D 5e. I hope they continue to enjoy it all the way to completely alienating a major portion of their audience. If these things aren't fixed, I will actively tell every place I haunt on the internet and in person not to waste their time buying it. Buy Solasta instead, sure its graphics seem to be ancient, its complete narrative is on the very short end of things, but at least they tried very hard to be true to the ruleset they based the game on.

AFAIK the highest bonus is used, so in your case it's Athletics only. Assuming, of course, that Larian didn't screw up the implementation, and it's actually RAW, otherwise all bets are off.

I take it you haven't met with the "Nere And His Duergars" travelling circus yet. Go on, try your recommendations in a fight against them yourself. Then come back here and teach us how to suck eggs.

Oh, and did I fail to mention that it was Lae'zel who got shoved into Lava? You know, Lae'zel, who had 18 strength and like +6 Athletics... Literally the strongest person in the party with the best Athletics? 1 hit KO, as a Bonus action. Shoved 30 feet into lava. Protect against that!

I had a thought while going about my business today. There is already a decently active mod community for this game. Just look here. Maybe the people we need to be talking to about Shove and Throw are the independent mod programmers. Let's see if one of them will make some quality tweaks to Shove and Throw. At least then there is a way to make Larian's game closer to the game it actually should be. I mean, it doesn't seem like Larian is listening. I'm guessing there are some independent coders out there who could whip up a mod to make Shove actually work like it's supposed to, and change Throw so that it is more in keeping with the balance of 5e?

I HATE mods.

Played party of 6 mod. Crashed game A LOT. Several times, computer crashed as well and I couldn't get the game to load for awhile.

We shouldn't have to rely on mods for mechanics that are intelligent for balanced gameplay just so we don't have enemies yeeting our toughest characters off cliffs or into lava,

We shouldn't have to mod a 5e game to play like 5e. The reverse should be true. If you want the slapstick comedy combat, that should require a mod.

Mods aren't so simple in multiplayer either. It requires coordination to install all the same ones and everyone needs to agree which ones to use. Which pretty much translates to multiplayer being without Mods. A difficulty setting is the only thing you can realistically agree on unless you have a tight group of like minded players.

I think the base game should provide a satisfying 5e experience without mods required to make a D&D game more D&D.

For all we know they might follow a similar trajectory to DOS2 and put some of these oft-requested changes out as “gift bags” after release.

I am sadly inclined to agree. I honestly am beginning to think they don't look at these forums at all considering the outcry for closer to 5e mechanics, and yet we get further. We will have to rely on modders to get the game we paid for. Its funny to think smaller studios have adapted much more complicated rulesets more faithfully than 5e, which is the simplist one.

For now, we just have to hope that this gets nerfed, even if Im glad they are giving Strength a reason to not be the dump stat in a system where Dex reigns.

You know, I could possibly see the current shove working for a high level monk using ki, but otherwise it's way over the top and needs a serious nerf. Honestly I was hoping they would have fixed it by this patch with all the complaints thus far about it, it's sad that they have not.