Players using shove in game doesn't mean they "have a blast" shoving or, if they do, that they agree that the current implementation is better than others.
Doing mental backflips here trying to insist that all those people who use and enjoy shove secretly agree with the anti-shove crowd.
On top of that, players who like shoving probably don't like it mainly because it's a bonus action...
But that's one of the main reasons given by players that "don't like it".
Of course we like it as a bonus action. It gives us more stuff to do in a turn.
...it fundamentally mistakes obliviousness for endorsement (people who aren't familiar with interconnected systems don't have strong opinions about them, imagine that!), not to mention it disregard the expertise that a specialized audience may bring to a discussion as irrelevant for the sake of a "Many won't notice this" type of rebuttal (imagine going to a motor magazine and telling to someone reviewing a motorbike or a car "Well, people will like it anyway, even if you are finding all these issues with the design and mechanics"), but that's pretty much his entire angle in a lot of these discussions, for some reason.
"If only all those casual gamers were expert gamers then they'd agree that Shove is bad-game!"
Hmm. Interesting argument. But nah. Plenty of folks love shove whereas there's a handful who don't. The part I'm pointing out, which is obvious to just about everyone and has been talked about in depth, is that the same people who hate shove *keep* talking about it, sharing their disdain, over and over again.
The same complaints here are also on the Steam Discussion forum
Like I said, a handful of people. Compare that to the thousands and thousands of comments saying "BEST GAME EVER!!!" all over the world wide web. Compare that to the streaming comments expressing laughter and joy as characters get shoved about on live streams.
...yet you seem to not care about the audience that Larian is advertising to that will not enjoy this.
What?
Of course not. I'm not in favor of a small group of people who:
1. Lobby endlessly to make something I enjoy less fun, and
2. Do so in the most negative, cynical, and bitter manner possible, all the while
3. Pretending without credentials that they're actually experts on game development and everyone else is a dummy.
It's one thing to say, "Hey, I think the game's too easy with shove." To which I can say, "I don't think it is. Count the encounters where shove changes everything."
It's one thing to say, "Hey, I don't like shove because it's not realistic." To which I can respond, "I get it, but that's not something that bothers me. I appreciate the way it's a bit larger than life."
It's one thing to say, "Hey, I wish it was an exact duplicate of 5e." To which I can say, "I appreciate that, but I don't share your desire. I'd prefer it be different here and there to make it more fun as a computer game."
All of those things make for reasonable conversation and discussion. Unfortunately, it's turned into more of a lobbying effort on behalf of the anti-shove crowd than an actual discussion. In my opinion.
