Originally Posted by JandK
Originally Posted by The Composer
You're making this unnecessarily tribal. Please don't.


Okay, this is a legitimate question, and I'm being completely sincere.

The comments against shove keep getting repeated. I can point out the same exact people saying the same exact things over dozens of posts over the last year alone.

How can I respond that I think those comments are off-base and exaggerated without coming across as tribal? I'm really sincere here. I'm not trying to be tribal. I'm trying in full faith to express an honest opinion.

In the meantime, I get personal attacks telling me I don't even believe what I'm saying. I've made several points, even going so far as to outline a chronological series of encounters and showing that shove isn't terribly effective in those encounters. In return, no one has tried to counter my points. They've simply presumed my motive and said that I'm arguing for the sake of arguing.

In other words, I get the sincere feeling that people here can shit on me all day long, but if I disagree, I get accused of being tribal.

Again, I'm not trying to be combative. I'm 100% sincere.

It is more so that this section of the forums is for feedback. People come here to make threads expressing some feedback they have, and try in their best way to explain why they think that. So if the feedback is something like "Hey I think this or that with Shove is bad, it is an action in 5e, but bonus action in BG3, this messes with the combat action economy." or something like that, the discussion technically ends there - As far as I'm concerned, once feedback is received by those meant to hear it (Larian in this case) any reply made afterward is solely for us gamers to hang out and discuss something we're passionate about. It's feedback to be presented from a player to developer, not from a player for others to gatekeep because their opinion differs. Now, since it's a forum (and a rather outdated one at that), discussion is inevitable, but just fencing over binary "I like it, you don't like it, but I'm right in liking it and you're wrong in not liking it" is a pointless conversation to be had. Particularly when the mannerisms and language become extravagant and exaggerated, promoting drama or fighting. Sometimes a presented topic of feedback is improved and iterated upon through discussion, which makes it worth keeping the conversation going. Without that potential, there'd be no reason not to just close the threads right away, deny any form of replies as it's then just feedback for lurkers to read and potentially be influenced by. That's usually where I come in moaning and being all mean, when I believe people are being an obstruction to iterative discussion or idea sharing.

Cantila wrote a reply earlier, that politely laid out why they think shove is fine as it is, without belittling or undermining other peoples differing opinions. There's learning to be had from this, not just by you but several posters in the thread.

Last edited by The Composer; 22/02/22 03:52 AM.