Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback SHOOOOOOOVE

And you can STILL push enemies down a pit/dirupe/whatever in Solasta, for the record. It's not like the feature went missing or lost its potential tactical value...
It's simply not THE dominant strategy in most areas and during most turns.

Shove is not the dominant tactic in most areas of the game right now. Not even close. Much less during most turns. The suggestion otherwise is simply not true.

There are a few places where shove is attractive, as if the game is inviting you to use it. Some people consider those few places fun. But most encounters aren't designed for shove to be the most effective tactic.

If necessary, we can make a list of every encounter and go over why shove isn't the best option. Encounters like the three fishermen on the beach, for instance. Or even the three intellect devourers on the beach who are much more easily taken down by ranged attacks.

Then we can have some data at hand when we throw around terms like "most."

The voice of truth has spoken, I guess we can just conclude this discussion now because everyone else is clearly wrong.

Yeah, I don't really care about getting your endorsement here. Denial doesn't help to fix the problem and you made no secret to "like it a lot".
I can see what NPCs try to do all the goddamn time from myself, and that's SHOVING every time they have a chance to turn it into a fall and/or one-hit kill.

And the problem, once again, is that they have that chance fairly often, given that
- Shove is a bonus action that they can perform while STILL attack in the same turn
- its range is insane, extending for 3-4 meters around the characters (and that's when no STR buffs, potions or convenient slopes are involved, extending the range even more).
- even when not the most lethal thing around or they have relatively low chances to succeed, it's cheap to perform if they don't have much better to do with their BA.


it is a FACT that the current implementation of the rules turned shove from something that should be HIGHLY circumstantial/situational to a "Why the hell not?" option that the AI (and often the player, too) is never shy to put into good use relentlessly.

You mean the Intellect Devourers you Shove back down from the platform if they reach you?

Thanks for bringing ranged attacks into the discussion because High Ground + Ranged is an essential part of why Shoving is too dominant.

It's also worth noting that when it comes to discussing "the range" there's also the non-negligible issue of the bodies not falling mostly in a straight vertical line (and they would be supposed to), but tracing ridiculously large parabolic arcs that can make them fly to obscene horizontal distances from the starting point.

Notice how Shove is beautifully crafted in Solasta. Shove knocked the skeleton off the edge - the VERY edge. Shove knocked one prone allowing my barbarian to make his second attack with Advantage. Ah. Simple. Realistic. Not me getting shoved 30+ feet from the edge, off the edge, and down to suffer 18 damage. Oh, and since in BG3 height provides +2 AC and Attack, this tactic of shoving people to lower ground allows archers to then take shots at +2 to Hit EVERY TIME including in the same round that they shoved you to lower ground.

So - and this is a COMMON scenario in the game and just happened the last time I did the Grove Gate fight. I'm on lower ground. Goblin on higher ground shoots at me with +2 to hit. I run up to be on level ground with him so he doesn't get +2. Next round. Goblin shoves me off the edge. Oh, BTW, I positioned myself BEHIND him so he couldn't do that. Right? Nope. He was on the edge. I used Dash to get behind him so I WOULDN'T be on the edge. But, you know, that doesn't matter. He shoves me anyway and I go SAILING from the hill all the way down to where Aradin is fighting the boss goblin. Then, just to be a butthole, he shoots me from the hill with +2 to hit. So, I not only took an obscene amount of damage for a fall that sent me sailing 100 feet horizontally and 30 feet down, but I also get shot by the same goblin in the same turn because Shove is a Bonus Action. And, just to make it even more "fun", he gets +2 to hit me because I'm not even knocked prone which would have at least made it so the goblin got disadvantage on his attack roll because ranged against prone targets is a disadvantage.

And by the way, were you not reading? I literally played through to the harpy fight, and except for the harpies, EVERYTHING was killed via Shove and Throw. EVERYTHING. I solo'd it as well. So, no weapons. No other party members. My dwarf Barbarian went around killing EVERYTHING with shove and throw including the Intellect Devourers.

And that's not broken? That's not stupid game mechanics?

Bah! You others are right. Why are we trying to convince one person. Does he work for Larian?

We gave videos. We gave countless examples. Enough said.

Beautifully crafted to work just the way tabletop players have become accustomed to... Correct. Meaning, when you play Solasta you feel the inherent connection to the source material, and Solasta can only use the SRD content because Wizards didn't authorize anything else for them. Wizards, did, though, authorize Larian to make a video game using anything and everything from the sourcebooks that they desired. In the blurb underneath the official announcement trailer from WAY back in 2019, this is what it says: "BG3 is the official next adventure in the venerable Baldur's Gate series." Is it?! Because I played BG1 and BG2, and they adhered pretty darn closely to the D&D rules of the iterations that were out at the time. Closely enough that I recognized that it was most certainly a D&D game. Whatever it is that BG3 has become, it is most certainly NOT "the official next adventure in the venerable Baldur's Gate series." Not by a LONG stretch of any D&D enthusiast's imagination. That's why I feel like there's been a bait and switch here. It's possible Larian didn't do that bait and switch maliciously. It's possible that they went about the business of making a game based on D&D, and in the process decided they didn't want to really be as close to the D&D rules as they originally anticipated. If that's the case, I'll probably never play the game in its final version, unless somebody creates a completely stable mod that makes the game behave like D&D 5e. The more I think about it, the more I agree with something jfutral said in a previous post.


That just about sums it up right there.

Honestly, it doesn't matter what they said. I would still be out here saying that the game would be better and more balanced if they just used more 5e rules. You have to expect a company is going to take what they already have available and use that to create a new game. It didn't surprise me at all to see a good deal of DOS in this game.

Regardless, the unrealistic jumping and shoving and throwing just makes the game very unrealistic and unbalanced. Adhering to a more strict 5e rule set would make the game look and feel more realistic and more balanced. Like many have said, the shove lines are ridiculous. There's not even a remote amount of realism to be found there. I don't care how strong you are, you can't shove a person 30 to 60 ft. That is superhero/god strength.