Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback An odd observation...

So a little background on my current play through of the game I chose to kill LAE'ZEL rather than rescue her and I stole her armor for my Ranger to wear... when I run in to the Gith patrol... they say nothing about it... I would think they would have a HUGE problem with a wood elf wearing Gith armor...

Why do we think Gith care so much about their armor?

For all we know, there's an astral market where that generic armor gets traded left and right. It may be that the Gith are entirely used to seeing other people and races walking around in armor that looks like that.

They care about their silver swords; we know that. But their regular gear and such? I don't know. It's possible we're just projecting our own expectations onto them. Especially given the reality of what seems to be. We chalk it up to early access mistakes when it might just be that the Gith don't care.

Perhaps simply because it is called "Githyanki Half Plate" opposed to simply "half plate". Other armors in the game are not racially designated and considering the attitude the Gith in game have toward all of the "lower" races, I agree with the OP they might have questions about non-Gith running around in Gith armor.

Are you kidding? Githyanki are VERY proud and arrogant people. If a Gith finds out you're wearing Gith armor, the assumption should be that you killed a Gith and stole their armor. That would be the equivalent of a Mandalorian catching a non Mando in their armor. Kill on sight!

Call them French Fries. That doesn't mean France is going to start cutting throats at Mickey D's.

It's just crap logic that's filled with presumption. Because that's the way "you imagine it being" doesn't mean it's that way.

It's easy to say Githyanki wouldn't suffer someone else wearing "their" armor. It takes a bit more nuance to consider other possibilities.


Oh, good grief, here we go again with the armchair expertise.

To reiterate: for all you know the Githyanki sell the armor at an astral marketplace. But instead of considering anything outside the box of your current head canon, you literally say that the immediate assumption *should* be that a Gith was killed and the armor was stolen.

We've all been DMs, you know. It's not an earned title. In my experience, the best DMs are usually the ones who think things through and come to interesting, out-of-the-box conclusions about things, as opposed to ones who jump on the bandwagon of the most obvious, arbitrary, and unbendable idea.

I accept that Githyanki hunt down Silver Swords if they are in the possession of non-Githyanki. That's canon. That's accepted.

The insistence that they also hunt down their mundane, non-magical half plate is not canon. It's not accepted.

…mundane, non-magical, gem-encrusted half plate…

If anything looks expensive and magical in the game, it’s that armor

So?

Think about it, Lae'zel scoffed at the notion that her people would come looking for her. It's her challenge to get back to them. But somehow, after she's dead, they're going to come after her armor? It's obviously not that big of a deal to them.

If a Githyanki died to a "lesser" race, then that Githyanki deserved to die. That's closer to the Githyanki mindset.

There's a huge difference between "hunting down armour across the planes like their silver blades across" and "reacting when you see somebody wearing your kin's type of armour that they most likely would have killed the previous owner of to get".

Try to have single argument not be completely made in bad faith once or twice J, I think you would find it refreshing.

Well, that is question ...
This isnt situation to "hunting down" anyone ... the target was as Kithrak say: "Walking right into my blades embrace."
So it would hardly cost them any extra effort to simply strike you down where are you standing.

I think it could not hurt if they are least coment on it ...
Or be a little suspicious about it ...

After all, Kithrak litteraly told us: "Do not speak, your bleeting offends my ears."
That really didnt sound as if he had any other than quite negative attitude towards you allready.

Maybe they are too proud to acknowledge that you might have killed a Gith? So they just stare, sweat and behave like assholes while not acknowledging the armour. 😊

Or maybe they just don't care about the armor? Once again, jumping through hoops to insist that their current behavior is somehow "off" when it's entirely reasonable that they just. don't. care.

It's not canon that they *do* care. It's nothing more than a foregone conclusion in some people's mind.

I tend to stray away from these unbendable monolith ideas. The certainty that *every Githyanki (by and large) won't suffer another to wear Githyanki armor, bah humbug, and they'll attack on sight, bah humbug!* is based on nothing more than shallow interpretation. The mentality is so sure of itself. It doesn't give an ounce of thought to any other possibilities.

ETA:


The reason I'm blocking this account is because it presumes bad faith instead of actually attempting to engage in dialogue. There is zero effort being made to understand where the comment is coming from. It's presumptuous. It's arrogant, unhealthy, and patently wrong, which I can say with confidence as I personally know the depth of my own sincerity when it comes to comments.

Thats exactly the problem here ...
They dont show any signs for "not caring" about us ... yes, they have no respect for out lives, and Kithrak several times mentions that he "should" just kill us, for we are no use to him ... not bcs he wants to, or bcs there is any deeper reason, simply bcs he have no reason to let us live.

In such encounter the armor would not be the "main cause of their hospitality" ... more like the last drop for their already overflowing chalice of patience.
Or covenient excuse for violence if you wish.

Its not matter of posessing incredibly rare and value armor ...
Its just matter of striking down lower being, who overstepped their boundaries. (Even tho possibly unwillingly.)

If you want example from real life try to imagine that you come home and find ugly, old, smelly and dirty homeless wearing your shirt ...
It would not be any extremely expensive shirt, nor any especialy favourite shirt ... but just the fact that this person dared to enter your house and simply take your clothes would probably not leave you all rational and calm ... would it?

I have no idea what you're saying. You're talking about something that doesn't happen in the game. The Gith don't attack you over the armor. The idea that they would attack you over the armor is made up fantasy. Nothing more than someone's idea of what should happen.

Again, for all you know the armor is sold mass market.

As far as the analogy about a shirt... you didn't take Lae'zel's armor directly from the Kithrak's wardrobe. You took the armor from Lae'zel.

It'd be more like coming outside and seeing someone wearing the same shirt as you because they bought their shirt from Macy's just like you did. And now you're all like, "What gives you the right to shop at Macy's, you prick?! Guard your grill, fool!"

Yeah why not ...

Now add to that mix that you are xenophobic asshole, raised to believe that you are above all and everyone, and you DO believe that, add that you have litteraly no respect for anyone else, nor you acknowledge litteraly any rights to them, then you add the fact that the very presence of that person is insulting you (just as Kithrak explicitly said), add the fact that that shirt from Macy's (whatever that is) is made specificly by your people and even tho it is potentialy sold to others, you didnt seen even single one on this place you are right now, but you know there are other scouting parties of YOUR people who are wearing EXACTLY THIS uniform ... and finaly add the fact that person is HUGELY outnumbered and outguned and you just killed bunch of them, bcs you simply wanted to, without any consequences.

And then tell me with all this that you would simply wave your arm and just let it be.

We've all been DMs? Wow. That's amazing. I didn't know everyone had experiences as a DM.

Everyone can be a DM, but not everyone can be a good DM. It takes more experience to be a good DM or a whole lot of natural talent. I've had good DM sessions and bad DM sessions. I have quite a bit of experience and a lot of campaigns. I'm still going, so I must be doing something right. I'm curious though, what are your DM credentials? How long have you been one?

Regardless, there's no need to be so rude. "armchair expertise?" Really?

And then you go and make an argument about someone wearing a shirt bought from a local department store?

It's more like someone who is obviously not a Nazi wearing a Nazi uniform and then walking up to a Nazi soldier and talking to them. They're clearly not Nazi, but they're wearing a Nazi uniform. You think the Nazis not going to shoot them dead?

Here's a better example. Go to the inner city in Chicago, steal a gang members clothes, then walk up to one of the gang members and see what they say. See if they treat you like you're just wearing a shirt you bought from a department store. That is the equivalent of what we're talking about here.

Gith are violent for the fun of it. It's in their race description. They are proud and arrogant as well. Also in their description. Then, just to add to this, they made Voss and the whole crew a bunch of proud and arrogant murderous individuals. I don't think it's a far cry that if you are wearing armor that is specifically made by gith, and all the other Gith are wearing identical armor, that they might get a bit pissed off if a non-gith is wearing their armor.

But you're out here being totally rude and obnoxious to people about this issue. It's one thing to disagree, but it's another to sit here and insult people on a regular basis.

I think its funny that people have gone to the extreme of KoA for wearing the armor... I never said that would be the case... I just think that it was a bit odd that the Gith don't even mention it AT ALL. You are clearly wearing armor worn only by their clan/ people that has to at least raise a red flag.

An example:

(Spoiler ahead) Even Boba Fett and the Sheriff Cobb Vanth have to explain to Din Djarin why they are in possession of Mandolorian armor. They aren't killed for it, but it is of concern. Hell Mandos seem to have a slight issue with anyone but them owning Beskar


I myself have never been a DM, but here is why I think the Githyanki would AT LEAST mention the fact that a non-Gith is wearing the armor of one of their kin.

1) the description of Githyanki half plate is as follows: "This armour was forged to Vlaakith's standards under the exacting eye of a githyanki smith." this tells me that generally speaking ONLY Githyanki wear it. This debunking the creative idea of them getting it from Astral marketplace and is super common place for other races to wear it.

2) the Githyanki seem to be an arrogant, prideful, bigoted lot. They vew other races as lesser... so much so they are ignorant of them (Example: calling a tiefling a teethling).

3)Given that they have their armor made just for them to a specific standard tells me they care a great deal about their armor and take pride in its making and wearing it is a source of pride (much like their blades)

4) They already think you are garbage and now you DARE to sully their uniform? That might be like wearing purple heart without having earned it... not to mention IRL tend to question when you have something or do something they think is culturally theirs.


I will grant some of this is MY perspective that is being infused in to what I know of Githyanki (IE the guides don't really tell you out right)

There is an enormous difference between hunting something down and taking umbrage at encountering someone in possession of something.

It is true that armor has never been as big a deal in Githyanki lore as say a Silver Sword, but in the game it is clear they're all wearing it. So, I agree, OP, that at least a, "Tell me Istik, why is it that you are wearing one of the armor sets of my people?" Is more than reasonable.

I do also think it should be borderline kill on sight. You should feel very threatened.

I grew up in Chicago. I loved not far from gangs. Tie your shoes the wrong way or wear the wrong color and you were beaten up at the very least.

Gith aren't gangs, but I can't imagine based on their lore that they would be much different when they see a person who isn't Gith wearing their gear.

Here's another way I view it. Imagine a noble in medieval society catching a peasant in noble clothes. Gith believe they are superior, like nobles. They would not approve.

What's with the "us" goal post shifting?

They show signs of not caring about the armor.

In my opinion, they could kill us or not for all they care. But they show zero signs about caring for the armor. This whole thing is predicated on the idea that they do care, and I'm saying there's no evidence for that.

It's like someone got a hint of what the Githyanki are like by playing Lae'zel and then decided to paint in the rest of the picture; unfortunately, that paint job is a bit of a two dimensional broad stroke. I suggest that there are other, more creative and nuanced ideas to be had. Ideas that fit into the reality of what's happening in the game as opposed to assuming the game made a mistake.

I don't like the idea of playing the game in search of an ax to grind.


Again, Lae'zel makes it clear that her people will not come after her. If she fails, she deserved to fail.

I have no idea why you keep projecting yourself into the Githyanki. These are alien creatures. They show no signs of caring about the armor other than the utility of wearing it, and they barely care about their own people, as Lae'zel slit the throats of her cousins, as the Kithrak is prepared to have Lae'zel cut down.

All of this coupled with a complete lack of canon supporting the mindset that's being pushed here.

I don't know how many ways to say it, but this suggestion about how the Githyanki *would* respond is nothing more than made up speculation. My example of an astral market is also made up speculation. But I'm not shoving that idea down anyone's throat by saying it must be that and the game is flawed if it isn't.



Here's part of the issue I'm having. I don't know how to respond to something like this. It's like I'm not reading the same words.

Saying the armor was forged to great standards... in *NO WAY* says the armor is only for Githyanki to wear. It doesn't even come close to saying that. A lot of products are made to exacting standards under an expert's exacting eye. That doesn't mean those products don't get sold and exported to other people and other nations.

Really, I truly sincerely mean it. I don't know how to respond to something like this because I feel like communication itself has completely broken down.


And if you were writing the story or if WOTC hired you to establish canon, that would be fine. I don't think it's a terribly interesting way to go, but it would be your choice.

But the way things are now, there's more than one potential interpretation on the table. All I've done here is offer alternative out-of-the-box ideas for what might be going on, and my ideas happen to be consistent with what we see in the game instead of assuming a mistake.

But for some reason I'm being told that this other idea is right as rain, voiding my interpretations. I've been told that I'm communicating in bad faith.

This is all nuts, in my opinion. An astral marketplace is *entirely* within the realms of reason.

Let's just say it's not rare to find someone who's willing to go on about their DMing experience.


Yes, I actually addressed that in the post you're replying to. I specifically said that good DMs come up with interesting ideas and interpretations. They often think outside of the box, and rarely paint with a broad stroke.

It's extremely unlikely I would ever play in a game you ran. We are very different people with very different ideas.


Since 1rst edition, back when Bards had to be fighter/thieves first.


What's rude about that? Often, people make fallacious arguments by appealing to an authority. One of the reasons that doesn't work is because the other person in the conversation might not agree with the authority in question, and thus the stated position should rely on its own merits.

In this case (and others), I feel like you've appealed to your own authority. I consider that to be fallacious, and so I've thus established that I do not accept your authority. This is a way of saying: let's discuss the merits of the points being made and nothing more.


Have you even read this thread? I did not come up with an argument about someone wearing a shirt. I responded to an argument about someone wearing a shirt because that's the analogy that was presented to me.


I now invoke Godwin's Law.


No. That is the equivalency you are trying to make and which I reject. Does that make sense? Do you understand where I'm coming from? I'm saying you're projecting that onto the Githyanki.

I get that it makes sense to you. I'm sure you feel you have credible evidence to make that projection, but consider that you may be biased and married to an idea you're defensive about.



None of that says they care about a singular piece of armor. Especially considering they apparently have enough of a supply of the stuff to go around. And even more especially when you consider that they may actually export the stuff throughout the astral plane.


See what I mean? You don't think it's a far cry... Even you have to admit that you're speculating. Well. I don't think it's a crime that I'm not impressed with that particular speculation. In my opinion, there are more interesting ideas.


I'm not being rude to anyone. I'm being rational and supporting my points, which I believe may have caused you to react defensively. It's not rude to say I disagree with you or think the points you're making are bad. That's just part of a discussion. I honestly think the real problem you're having is that I'm winning the debate, consistently.

In fact, there's substantial evidence that others have been rude to me, outright mocking me in some posts.