I didn't get terribly far into last playthrough but all unique lines available to barbarian were really off. Like opening pod by force because we are... barbarian? Should that be just a strength check? Or random roaring at enemies... again nothing class specific just intimidation check, which for some reason is unique to barbarian. The thread was written after YouTube recommended me this video:
WTF, unless there is something I am missing in Barbarian lore, what force feeding feces (yuck? epic D&D adventure, Baldur's Gate3 everyone!) have to do with the class? If I decide to be a barbarian does it mean I decide to be a disguising asshole?
I am just tying up loose ends before heading underground and am really liking it.
I am definitely going to run one at full release that is either 5/x multiclass Totem/Thief or 5/x moded Totem/Celestial Chainlock (Please don't squeeze the Shaman build).
Sure, but I also like class reactivity. Having your class/background/actions/reputation etc acknowladged in conversation is a great thing to have. I can't express how happy I was in Deadfire when as playing as ranger I was able to intriduce my pet wolf on multiple occasions. Speaking of PoE maybe I just got spoiled with barbarians not being always drawling brutes (honestly it was first RPG that didn't turn me off using a barb). Surely there is a more interesting take on a barb then Hulk's somehow dumber cousin. It might be, again my PoE ideology bleeding though, but I feel like class specific options should highlight this class' character and flavour, not define characters physican or mental state.
I am a barb therefore I know this/am perceived as this/have an ability to do that, rather then defining who our character is period. To countermeasure - a brilliant part of Barb reactivity I thought, was having to do a saving check to not kill the goblin Wyll wanted to interogate when under effect of rage (I do hope it is present only if one finishes combat enraged, it would be weird otherwise).
Originally Posted by Van'tal
How are you liking Barbarian BTW?
It's been alright. Have been playing a berserker. Seems flat out more powerful then warrior, though I killed Laez in this playthough so didn't have direct comparison. I like that they added proper throwing weapons, though I wish they would figure out a neater implementation of it - so I don't have to search for throwable weapons among everything else in my inventory. Honestly, mostly I have been focused on UI - to me that was the more significant addition.
I've been saying this since day one, but Larian have a real problem with class-specific and race-specific dialogues that shows they don't actually understand what character and characterisation of the PC actually IS, or that individual players are interested in playing their own characters.
A great many - most, I'd venture - of the class and race locked dialogues are things that literally ANY character SHOULD be allowed to do, say or attempt, but are instead gate-kept behind specific classes and races for no legitimate reason. (For example; most of the 'halfling' locked dialogues are about encouraging peaceful resolutions, and being grateful for kindness - things that ANYONE should be able to say)
Conversely, they don't use class and race specific dialogues for things that are actually tied to those details; race dialgoues should primarily be holding comments or conversations options relating to history, culture, geographical location and mythology of those people - information you can put back into the world as a character interacting with it, that also helps the player passively. This never happens.
They do a liiittle better with class ones, sometimes - but they're mostly incredibly ham-fisted and silly - pretty much all of the sorceress ones are dialogue options that make you out to be a brash, boastful, overconfident and mostly self-centred arsehole, and they've made it incredibly difficult to give the sorceress experience perspective to the party or the situation, without having to say something dramatically out of character if you aren't that kind of jerk.
Warlock is the same, for the most part, except always more sinister and haughty, while wizard is the same, but more snobbish and condescending.
Basically - it comes off that Larian have already decided, for themselves, what the PC's character is like, or, rather, they've already decided what the character representative for each of these classes is like - and either you play the character role they've given you, or you don't take any of the options associated with your class at all. It sounds like Barbarian is largely the same again: they've decide that the barbarian is a loud, violent, angry, uncouth savage that shouts at their problems and bullies people... and if that's NOT the type of character you're playing, then you're stuck either accepting that characterisation being put on you, or else never interacting with any of your class specific content at all.
All in all, it's a pretty rotten way to handle this and they don't appear to be learning as they go, at all.
To be fair, the Barbarian dialogues are usually marked Intimidation. I used the skill versatility Half-Elf mod and made sure I chose all the skills I wanted for my own version of Barbarian...which included Persuasion as my main charisma based skill.
I generally pick persuasion, although I have chosen Intimidation, where it thematically fit, and its yielded pretty good results.
This has worked well for me:
Class: Athletics + Perception
Background: Urchin...Stealth + Slight of Hand (for lock-picking & traps)
Racial: Persuasion + Insight (for general observation)
Totem Barb: Animal Handling
So basically, to avoid the trap don't choose intimidation.
PS...think I am going to do the Shaman of Selune at launch (5 Barb totem / rest Celestial Warlock of Selune (with existing mods).
Cause this:
I made way to an old outpost in the Underdark that guards the desecrated Temple of Selune. There was a fierce battle here and all of her faithful were slain.
...and yet, Selune's wards remain as a testament to all that light still holds the Darkness at bay.
I found a portal and am heading back to the Tea House to begin my journey from there.
To be fair, the Barbarian dialogues are usually marked Intimidation. I used the skill versatility Half-Elf mod and made sure I chose all the skills I wanted for my own version of Barbarian...which included Persuasion as my main charisma based skill.
I generally pick persuasion, although I have chosen Intimidation, where it thematically fit, and its yielded pretty good results.
Whether you are proficient in persuasion or not doesn't change the dialogue options presented to you though, right? A barbarian still gets a Barbarian-specific option that asserts your character to be a brute/uncouth/savage/gross, and no other classes get this option. And Barbarians get extra options to intimidate that other classes don't get, that should really be a skill check applicable to everyone. I.e., as a Barbarian you can choose to play otherwise, but as any other class you can't play as the personality Larian has chosen for a Barbarian. And the same for other classes.
Although that's an interesting idea come to think of it - perhaps instead of Larian tying certain dialogue options to Class, they could tie it to skill proficiencies. In the video in OP's post, perhaps those who are proficient in Intimidation get the "eat dung" option. Representative of someone who is truly creative and experienced with their intimidation prowess.
To be clear, I'm not saying ALL skill checks are dependent on whether you're proficient. Obviously lots should be attemptable without proficiency. Just the really extra checks that show strong personality/expertise do.
The dwarf barbarian is the only one I can take seriously. The other races' bodies are so weak and skinny it looks ridiculous having them perform all these feats of super human strength and intimidation.
I gave this a second thought ... And i believe we are not looking at the problem from right perspective.
Take those examples that were used here: Opening the pod should be regular Strength roll ... i agree, for the first one, not quite for the second. Its not that Barbarian is the only class "strong enough to try" ... its more like Barbarian is the only class stubborn enough, too focused on using his raw strength only to continue, despite there is no sign of progress right now ...
I mean what is difference between Barbarian and Fighter in Roleplay perspective? Especialy if they both have same Str? Fighter is using techniques, manouvers, their defense sustains from effort to gain mastery of blocks, parries, dodges, counterattacks, and their attack focuses on simmilar things, effectively using their armor searching for weaknes in enemy defence and then use it! Barbarian on the other hand is usualy simple brute they dont bother with blocking, or avoiding attack ... since they simply can take a few ... same as they dont bother with trying to overcome enemy defence ... they simply break right through it!
I mean i dont say that "every barbarian have to be like that" ... but that is the most "common" picture i have. :-/
Same goes with others ... I dont think that Barbarians are so discuisting monsters so they eat shits ... i think they are simply intimidating enough to force the Goblin do that ... even to be completely honest, i dont like reaction of our barbarian ... sure they are pleased with themselves, but still ... its fucking discuising, and they SHOULD take that in concideration. :-/
The last example i would like to react on is roaring ... while this indeed seems a little random, i dont think it would need much changing. In my honest opinion in most cases all Larian would need would be to switch the word "ROAR" with some narrative description of showing your raw strength and your will to use it. I dunno, one time they can describe anger in our eyes ... next time they could describe how we flex our muscles ... next time we can i dunno, grit our teeth ... or display our battlescars ... the possibilities are endless. They are all non-werbal threats and i like the idea and would certainly love if they would be maintained as they are ... but just roar to everyone is indeed cheap and kinda stupid.
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
Ragnarok, you’ve been asking for some time for alternate skill checks when appropriate, to let characters be intimidating despite low Cha, for example. I thought of you when I saw the barbarian situationally gets advantage on intimidation checks. I wonder how you feel about that system.
barbarian situationally gets advantage on intimidation checks
Thats the problem ... he dont. It is named "situational" and that name is all situationalness it have in common with that, since Berserker have it on almost every single one, just for being Berserker (dunno about Wildheart, that one for some reason i simply dont like at all).
Wich is silly and cheap. :-/
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
Basically - it comes off that Larian have already decided, for themselves, what the PC's character is like, or, rather, they've already decided what the character representative for each of these classes is like - and either you play the character role they've given you, or you don't take any of the options associated with your class at all.
Just speculating, but I wonder how much it has to do with the origin system. If BG3 is anything like D:OS2 then race and class reactivity might have been written with particular character in mind - have wizard lines fit Gale, have Warlock lines fit Wyll, make barbarian/halfling lines fit whoever will be their origin. After all origins will most likely use more or less the same conversation system and race/class options will be easiest way to characterise them + some unique options no doubt.
... its more like Barbarian is the only class stubborn enough, too focused on using his raw strength only to continue, despite there is no sign of progress right now ...
No, that's a thing of character, and characterisation, not class. If we can stubbornly try this despite the seeming difficulty, that's a character and personality choice, and should not be class locked, at all.
What a Barbarian Should be able to do is contextually expend a rage when they fail the first time, to take the second check with advantage - that's one of the things rage is For after all - advantage on strength checks.
Well ... yes, but that was just my way to describe the state of mind ... Important part is that focus on raw strength in every situation ...
I mean if you take all those options we have there: 1) The pod's stuck fast. I can't free you. 2) I'l go look around - there must be some way to get this thing open. 3) [Barbarian][Strength] Don't give up. Tear this thing open.
And important thing is that they exclude each other ...
So if you play the "typical" Barbarian, you just need to keep pulling since that is your character mindset, such person would rely on his raw strenght, bcs he simply dont even see any other option ... my father had expression that fits to that situation: "where strength does not help, more strength helps". If you want to play more intelligent barbarian you can try look around ... And if you want, you can simply give up.
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I like the idea that Barbarian should be able to use his rage as situational boost for his Strength rolls ... It would be even better if we would in some cases forced then to do another roll to calm down.
But i dont necesarily think that this is bad thing that this option is not avaible for Fighter ... Since even tho Fighters can be created to have exactly same stats as Barbarian ... their mindsed should not (at least in my eyes) to relly on their strenght and durability ... that is just Barbarian thing. :-/
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
Partly it's ok for me, partly not. I can accept dialogue options which refer to a wild and aggressive nature, but not to raw strength. My main problem with the Barbarian is that it is strength based by design. A wild "primitive" warrior doesn't have to be a dump muscleman however. Especially as the rage drives you, weak people could do more in that status than people who visited fitness studios in abundance (there is no natural way to aquire such big muscles, so most real "barbarians" are quite lean people).
Overall I'm a bit disappointed by the Barbarian. -The armor does not fit for me, I would like to have one without pants, more loincloth-like (Basket Full of Equipment mod solves this to a certain degree). The long extensions on the back, really a hindrance in a real fight, make it look like a kind of mage clothing. Bah. - I like the jewellery visuals of the Wildheart subclass, but why are there no options for the Frenzy subclass? - It annoys me that I cannot start rage if under some debuffs, like from rangers, especially as such debuffs cannot be cleansed by Clerics. - The Wildheart subclass seems kind of week to me, as you don't get two attacks, and what you get instead is not that impressing. I stopped playing a Barbarian tank, as with the changed AVC mechanics dealing damage is so much more important. - I don't like the implementation of throwing stuff. I had hoped for throwing weapons as ranged slot weapons, with shorter range and higher damage than normal ranged weapons. - I see the Barbarian as an unarmored fighter, so I would like restrictions for him if wearing armor. The Fighter should excel here, not the wild tribal warrior.
Nevertheless the class feels strong and I would probably take with me a Barbarian companion if possible. I will not play one because I cannot accept the strength based design for my visualized character.
