Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Why I Want More D&D 5e Rules

My love for this game has waned. They're killing it. The more I'm seeing the signs, the more disheartened I become.

Well, at least I got my money's worth.

Larian, PLEASE! When you finish EA, PLEASE take this advice:

1. Provide an option for true 5e experience - rules and stats.
2. Provide an option for party of 6 and no party of 4 lock where you choose which 4 you continue with forever after Act 1.
3. Day/night cycle in some fashion.
4. Better Rest System that encourages Short Rest over Long.
5. Better Item Management.
6. Proper Shove and Throw.
7. Better feats to promote people actually taking them.
8. Proper scroll and item use.
9. No level cap.
10. And overall, less extremes. Balance. Balance. Balance.

If you did even SOME of these things, you would redeem this game. If not, well, that's that. Like I said, at least I got my money's worth. Won't ever buy another Larian game, but whatever. I'm sure that won't grieve you too much.

Anyway. I'm done. Someone else who cares can take up the fight if they care. I may or may not finish the fan fic. We'll see.

Wish you all well.

- GM4Him

Also reactiooooons!

For myself played through BG3 EA, not all of it...thought it was a good <DOS3> game, mediocre D&D game and really bad Baldur's gate game.

Overall for atmosphere/D&D3.75/story Pathfinder WOTR surpasses in every conceivable way, apart of course from cinematic dialogues and maybe graphics...which is a good thing actually; I prefer written text + voice acting. Its more a <Baldur's gate>game than BG3.
For pure D&D, Solasta all the way.
Im back also playing BG2.

Every time I play D&D, it brings me back to one of these threads because I see yet another broken mechanic in BG3 or it supports one I've already brought up.

So, I'm going to make another attempt to back up the need for more strict 5e especially in regards to Shove/Throw.

Monk isn't presently in the game, but when it is, it will be once again severely jacked up.

Way of the Open Hand - One of the most common types of monks
Monks of the Way of the Open Hand are the ultimate masters of martial arts combat, whether armed or unarmed. They learn techniques to push and trip their opponents, manipulate ki to heal damage to their bodies, and practice advanced meditation that can protect them from harm.

Open Hand Technique - The first ability you get
Starting when you choose this tradition at 3rd level, you can manipulate your enemy’s ki when you harness your own. Whenever you hit a creature with one of the attacks granted by your Flurry of Blows, you can impose one of the following effects on that target:

It must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw or be knocked prone.
It must make a Strength saving throw. If it fails, you can push it up to 15 feet away from you.
It can’t take reactions until the end of your next turn.


So, if present state of the game persists, I'm guessing Open Hand Monks will not be implemented as one of the subclasses in the game. Why? Because there is no knock prone, shove already is 15 feet or more away from a person, and there aren't any true reactions in the game other than Opportunity Attack.

If the current design style and philosophy continues:

- You'll have a button called 'flurry of blows' that spends a ki point to give you a second, completely unlimited, bonus action. You'll be able to use this at any time, with no caveats, saving once per turn.

- You'll also have 3 separate buttons for:

- Flurry of Blows (Prone): strike damage + imparts the unconscious state, like the sleep spell or slipping in grease do.
- Flurry of Blows (Shove): strike damage + shoves the target, as per shove.
- Flurry of Blows (Shocked): strike damage + imparts the 'shocked' condition (complete with electric effects) as per shocking grasp or electrified puddles.

This is the 'minimum work' way of doing it in their existing system without creating anything new... and it's deeply disheartening to find myself believing that this is probably pretty close to what they will actually do. - That they haven't dropped monk on us yet because they *didn't* consider it to be one that had anything new or complex that they needed to develop for it, and they said they were getting the ones with new or special or difficult mechanics out of the way first.

((Bonus: Initial bug projection: Flurry (shove) will automatically work if the attack hits, or possibly, will make attack rolls and saves separately, so you may sometimes end up shoving successfully without hitting. It will probably also just use the same check as shove currently does, and *not* actually force a saving throw against your monk DC))

Holy Crap on a Cracker, Batman! Everything you just said... I can see it happening. Even if it wasn't previously, it is now.

AAAAAAAhhhhhhhhhhh!

All the classes... RUINED I say. RUINED!

Im in the same boat, having uninstalled the game and giving their little questionnaire a long, detailed reasoning as to why I'm uninstalling it. The game will most likely be fixed by mods, as DOS2 was, but if they fail to tell an engaging story then it will mean nothing. As a supposed direct sequel to Decent into Avernus, they aren't taking the several endings of the module into account. Maybe later they will allow players to choose how that ended, but I assume not. I also see a lot of leaning into winks and nods of the other famous modules of 5E, (Tomb of Annihilation with Volo, Mordekainnen and Barovia from Curse of Strahd) as if this will be enough to satisfy those of us who play the system. The tadpole is very interesting, but I do hope they add more nuance and flesh out the companions, as well as your own character. Until then, as said above, we have Solastica and Pathfinder WOTR

Pretty much.
And simply put, casuals couldn't give a damm for D&D AND Baldur's gate. Has long as you have pretty graphics, sex and LOTS of loot its all RPG goodness. Mixed in with clunky Larian humor, its a perfect seller!

Meanwhile fans of D&D and Baldurs gate got scammed into this PR BS. If this were called DOS3 would of never bought it.
Thank god for Pathfinder Wotr and Solasta which plays/feels more like a Baldurs gate game ironically.
I keep checking the forums, the updates, maybe some kind of hint on a game similar in feel to BG2 or closer to D&D ...alas...basically we are still getting : DOS3, A Baldurs Gate adventure.
Its like Baldurs gate 1 and 2 never existed. But hey, we will keep the names and have some cameos to keep the grumpy <fans> happy. From what Ive seen on this forum people who love this game either HATES the previous games, or never even bothered playing them. Im betting nearly NO Larian employee finished the first two games. I mean its just not possible.

If it's any help here, there is a "standard" canon guideline for the events of game modules and how they affect the realms - and that is "The status quo remains". What this effectively means is that the presumed canon of game modules is that the great evils are thwarted in some manner, prevented from attaining the ultimate end of their plans, but they are also not permanently destroyed, and major figures survive, unless they die as part of the module's core plot. So, the evil lich fails to cover the world in her ultimate necrotic shroud, but her phylactery is also not destroyed. Laeral Silverhand is not killed in the assault on her home, but neither is Manshoon (at least, not all of him), etc...

In terms of what this means for the Avernus adventure, the formal post-adventure canon is presumed to be:

- Elturel was dragged into the hells, but it was also returned, thanks to the efforts of heroes.
- No lords of the hells were slain permanently.
- Important NPCs mentioned in the adventure all survived, unless their deaths were ordained by the module itself.

and, unfortunately,

- Zariel was neither slain, nor redeemed, and remains in her position as the ruler of Avernus (sorry Lulu).

Individual players and tables will have their own evolving worlds where their adventures changed the course of history and the face of the realms, but in terms of the writing of future official adventures, the standard canon is always that the actions of the heroes in previous modules avert disaster, but status quo of other elements remains.

I think you are giving them way more credit than what's should be. I think there will be just a single button, with only one of these options, and the other two will go to Hel.

Which one they will implement? I'm inclined to say it's #2 - after all, Shove seems to be their favourite. Then again, #3 will probably create a surface, and they also love them.

So, chances are, with monk we will finally see the pinnacle of Larian's creativity - The Shove Surface. I have no doubt that all shove-loving knaves will go absolutely ecstatic with such a marvellous concept.

OMG. Stop giving them ideas like that.

This game is doomed. In the words of Jareth from the movie Labyrinth, "What a pity. WHAT a pity.". Fades to nothing.

Hmm, this makes me wonder when Monk comes out if push/shove will be nerfed for everyone else.

From another "Labyrinth" film:

Larian adapting D&D

Seriously, If Larian delivers a good story and multi-class its a win...the modders will fix everything else and have done an awesome job so far!

Who plays Skyrim unmoded?

Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines isn't even playable without fan made mods, yet because of their efforts its still at the top of its genre.


I am having a blast on my current play-through because of mods and I avoid all the immersion breaking elements, such as:

Bad dialogue options (hence options).

Shoving, dipping my weapons, or creating my own surfaces.

Throwing chickens.

Talking to anyone at parties and walking away from party members if I even think they will hit on me. Really, there have been only two game characters that it was enjoyable to have a romantic connection with in a story: Tali'Zorah and Visas Marr...oops, forgot about Vilja in Skyrim (a mod)...she made me laugh.


Things I do do:

Take my time checking out the areas.

Using a torch...since they broke Darkvision / never implemented Devil's Sight. Also lighting brazers and candles.

Reading books.

Creating my own RP story.

I hate mods, don't use them, etc. I tried using party of 6, simple mod, and had issues with my computer crashing, regularly. I do t play any games with mods for this reason and because you never know what viruses or potential issues they may cause.

Why are people okay with this approach? Just trust in modders to fix a game instead of wanting the devs to produce a good game to begin with?

I haven't had issues with viruses from Nexus, although mods can cause a game to lock up. Having to manage 6 players vs 4 might tax system resources...hell I get lag with 4 characters on ultra. To be clear I am not criticizing your cautious attitude toward downloads.

As far as being OK with producing a D&D game without first adapting the engine from DOS to be compatible with the 5e RAW, well that is on Wizards of the Coast really. The New York Giants have made poor decisions ever since their owner died, and looks like Gary Gygax failed to train a proper replacement too.

Anyway, its out of my hands for sure. I posted early on, in detail, why deviating from the RAW was a REALLY REALLY bad idea...they basically are testing a brand new game at that point. When they chose to stick with turn based 5e, all they had to do is follow the blue print like Solasta did. Get rid of stupid ideas, like also testing a sex simulator (shakes head...un-*ing believable), then they could have dedicated all of their creative energy to the story and characterization.

To be fair though, this is the studios best work yet.

I never completed DOS1 (I tried two separate times), because it became too repetitive and I got bored; also the story wasn't engaging enough to hold my interest.

I forced myself to complete DOS2, but got bored at the end...what was the plot again? I seriously don't recall.

BG3 is far far above and beyond what they have ever done so far and I applaud their efforts to continually try to raise the bar. Credit where credit is due.


More credit where credit is due:

The game is gorgeous, stunning even...grumbles...why can't I look around and up again?

The cinematics are incredible! ...I am nominating the Mind Flayer for best supporting monster at the next academy awards.

The level design is deep and well thought out. No cut and paste here!

The quests are "bang it out of the park" good! No fetch me 15 gnome eyeballs for my evil magic potion.

There are secret doors and puzzles.

Their are portals and *wait for it* relevant lore!

The story elements are absolutely there to tie into the events occurring after BG2 (check out Wolfhearts site, pull up a log by the fire, and he will regail you with tails from the land of Faerun and the planes themselves).

Larian has and IS doing their homework.

Volo..."I can't wait to pick your brain"


At this point, time is of the essence in this project. By all means, please concentrate on the story!

That and deliver what was promised:

Remaining classes

Dice roll for attributes

Multiclass (please get that done).


Ima not try to convince people who are wary of mods to use them, only to be responsible when their computer takes over the world, however IF you can reasonably eliminate the threat of viruses, then mods do make all the difference in the world!

Game safe!

I dont think that must be the case ...

Even tho some certainly are exactly that.
(Mentioned above Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines are perfect example for exactly that case, bcs studio has ben closed shortly after release ... people indeed had to finish the game themselves. :-/ )

Most people dont see (in my honest opinion) mods as "fix" for a "broken" game ... its just adjusting things, to suit better their needs.
And that is something studio can never do for you, bcs they would need to create as many versions of the game as much coppies they sell.

I dont think that must be the case ...

No at all! If larian has the time and resources to both fix the mistakes AND make a good story, then they would only be setting themselves up to make more great D&D games that will be well received.

They strike me as stubborn though....go ahead and prove me wrong.

*HK-47 voice*

addendum:

Said Meattbags are moving on to another project after this and may not immediately express interest in continuing ventures in this story arc.

Speculation:

If the game is successful, due to the efforts of skilled moders,

who actually fully understand why creating a product to the desired specifications matters,

then future companies may take notice and do it right to begin with.


"A wise man sees the mistakes of others, and follows not in their path"

`Yoda

This could still be a Cinderella story...

Y'know the one where she gets on the wrong train...accidentally falls in love...and lives happily ever after.

I cried tears of joy in that one.