Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Mega-threads and Guides Camping and resting.

I remember combat when there was some wood bloking the road/camp attacked with the same outcome: you have to fight with a random selection of characters.
Or one with some warriors in desert that I had several times and sometimes I was able to avoid battle, sometimes not.
My top 1 of stupid random encounters was the one with enemy soldiers lying under the sun in the desert to pretend they are dead, with a crying child to attract my attentiond and the child was carrying a gem to give it to me... and then the battle started and we where at the cave map
My top 1 of horrible encounters was with druids. When I tryed to avoid battle they just attacked and killed one of my praetorians (and that was a text encounter, not a real battle)... Injury I get used to, but killing thats just too much, imho


Well, I haven`t played much, but the ones I played:

Expedition: Rome, already said: too often, at the end I had feeling that there are no new events and I have seen all of them. And that they excist only to add artificial difficulties by injuries, food loss etc.

Expedition: Vikings, the encounters there I remember where camp encounters. When you want to make camp but game tells you that first you need to kill wolfs/bandits. Wolfs were "ok", but bandits were horrible. The combat area is huuuuge, you are at one side, enemy on the other and enemy just dont want to fight! They run away, but they cannot leave battle, so they just run around the battlefield and I have to chase hoping I can corner them. I dont know who designed it but it has nothig to do with "fun" at all...

Pathfinder: wrath of the righteous. When I played first I didnt know I can avoid battls by having some spesific character with specific characteristics. So that was a pain: cannot make 10 steps on the world map without being attaked by some trash mobs, so: loadig screen, fight, find where game generates way out from the location, loading screen, rinse and repeat
Non-combat encounters or Bone Merchant. When I was playing first time there was no option to avoid that merchant. If you met him you had to wait for loading screen, turn around, press "exit" and wait for loading sreen again...
Its not fun, its just constant stops on my attempt to do quests

Pathfinder: kingmaker. Camp encounters when mobs attack during sleep. I was unlucky to have them oftem. Want to make a camp and go questing but no, wake up, fight with trash mobs, then send party to sleep again, then find where game generates way out from the location...

Encased. The only game where I like random encounters. Because each time you have "you meet enemy/merchants" event there where 2 options: approach and leave. So I just chose not to participate and leave. That is the variant I like: those who enjoy fighting may go and have their fun with trash mobs, those who doesnt enjoy just go questing without random obstacles


The problem with all that is: it is very hard to balance it between "fun encounters" and "additional boring micromanagement"
I had "camp guards" in Kingmaker and Vikings, and for me it was just an addintional micromanagement. Nothing fun at all, just additional movements to put guards each time I want to sleep or "put guard and forget about that mechanic"
With my ability to teleport through a map that wont be any "challenge". Just tp to the grove, go inside, sleep, tp back to the nearest tp point, do back. Is that interresting? For me that would be just a borring artificial obstacle that prevents me from exploring the map without runnig back

It is a very thin barrier between "oh, that was fun and interresting" and "aghhh, why the game is constantly putting spokes in my wheel when I am just trying to have some fun???" And in addition, that barrier is different for all playrs

So the point of that a little bit too long comment: random encounters should be either very-very accurately balanced or be optional.
Or they become just a boring/frustrating routine (and/or additional source of unnesessary micromanagement)

Sigh. Hearing your feedback on random encounters does remind me that my own players on tabletop really hate them. In Descent on Avernus, for example, when moving about the sewers, there are suggested random encounters - running into patrolling cultists, etc.

I skipped them. There was enough fighting, and my players were already getting tired of the scripted fights. I could sense that if I threw yet another group of cultists at them, they were going to scream.

And, to Ragnarok's point, once you've cleared an area in a tabletop D&D game, the DM doesn't usually suddenly throw a random encounter at you if, for whatever reason, you return to a location.

The main point of an RPG is story. If something distracts from the story, that's not particularly good.

So, I can understand the reasoning behind not wanting random encounters. Most players I've known want encounters to have some sort of purpose or meaning to the overall story. They don't like to fight just for fighting's sake. You may have one or two players who like being fighters or barbarians who just want more fights and action, but a lot of players don't. They try to avoid combat as much as possible.

So, when thinking from a tabletop player perspective, I guess no random encounters makes the most sense.

Exactly.

I also agree about not having ridiculous, repetitive random encounters. But I also hate the fact, with Larian games in particular, that once you clear an area, or all of the areas in an "Act" you've essentially destroyed every living creature in that location. That seems silly.
There are certainly more goblin patrols, bandits, wolves and just other creatures in general that you would encounter if you're wandering around.

I guess I just enjoy open world games that have an overall objective more than a story that someone else wrote and I'm just tagging along rolling dice.
I prefer the chance to actually fail, lose, choose wrong, and then actually miss out on something rather than always getting to eventually win at everything on the way to the predetermined victory montage.
But that' s me and my GenX mentality I guess.

Let's then remove all not story related combats and side quests and bandits lair or any other filler content in games then.
Good story doesn't make good rpg. Remember Solasta ?

A story in a world that feels alive is always more immersive than a story written in a frozen one. This is not a TT RPG in which your imagination is doing most of the job.

I fully support Deirdre's comments about Pathfinder and we already talked about E:R... But as he said random encounters should be very accurately balanced to makes the pros more visible than the cons.
Being able to "leave" some of them could also be an interresting option when you travel (in exemple you cannot leave if you're spotted, you can if you spot them first).

There are great ideas in many games (and also in mods), but there are very little attempt to update this feature to my knowledge.
But random encounters or events should definitely not dissapear imo because it's a great tool to increase the immersion in a story and the believability of a world... Especially one that is supposed to be dangerous.

As iBowfish said, cRPG should not be games in which you just "clean" areas.
I guess Larian doesn't have many options to improve the feeling that we're in a living world... D/N cycle and random encounters/events at camp and on the map are the only options I can think of to go from frozen worlds that only react to the players actions to worlds that looks "persistent".

I totally get your point, Max. The last time I had cleared everything out, it felt REALLY weird. I really felt like the world was dead. I felt almost saddened because it was SO quiet everywhere. Especially after the tieflings leave the grove, it gets REALLY quiet. It's like nothing's alive anymore anywhere.

Something like that is fine for a place like Grymforge or the Dank Crypt or even the Goblin Camp/Selunite Temple Ruins, but when you're roaming the forest or the road or the bog, that's when I feel it the most.

I honestly think that the world would feel more alive if they even just put more animals into it. Even if the animals flew off or scampered off or something, at least the world would feel more living and animated. Even if you weren't able to fight the animals or whatever, just having SOMEthing alive and moving would make it feel a bit less like a scary ghost town after you've cleared it.

So, I don't know if random encounters is the best solution, or if we just need more SOMEthing alive on the map. I do still think that IF they could pull off random encounters well, that would be good - especially for places like Moonhaven where it makes sense that goblins would replenish their numbers there after a few hours or a day. It's still very weird to me that they don't. I mean, as a DM, if my party rested and came back to Moonhaven after clearing it the first time, I probably would have some sort of patrol milling about looking for whoever did it.

But I can also see that places like the bog or the road, it might be a bit weird to trigger random encounters. I don't know. Again, I guess if they did it well, it would probably make the game more fun and exciting. I think I'm just starting to doubt that it would be done well, and the last thing I want is a bunch of boring random encounter trash mob fights.

This applies to this thread too, so I'm pasting it here. It's also on the Day/Night cycle thread:

OK. It's been awhile, and I've given Day/Night more thought. I still really really want a Day/Night functionality in the game. Nothing complicated. Just a single button that transitions from Day to Night. Call it the Day/Night or Long Rest button. It will replace the End Day button.

What's the point? I want to be able to travel about the map by night, especially as a drow who is supposed to be sun sensitive. I also want to Long Rest more per day without a single day going by, so it feels more like my characters are doing more per day than what is in the current game. It would, I think, make spellcaster lovers more happy also, for they would be able to renew their spells 2x's a day rather than fight, run out of spells, Long Rest and thus End Day, and then fight once, run out of spells, Long Rest and thus End Day. In other words, instead of making 2 whole days go by, those who love to spam Long Rest would only make 1 day go by, which would make more sense from a story perspective. Besides this, if you transition from Day to Night, you are essentially resting for a LONG period of time, not just an hour or two. You might even rest more to allow for the transition than you would if you slept at night.

So, here's my idea of how the Day/Night button would work. You start on the beach. You travel about. You spot the intellect devourers. Dang! Drow is sun sensitive. That fight will be harder because my drow gets disadvantage. Tool tip pops up. "Some races, like drow, are sensitive to sunlight. They will get disadvantage on rolls while in direct sunlight, or if their targets are in direct sunlight. Disadvantage works by rolling 2d20 and taking the lowest die roll. This will put any characters with sun sensitivity at a serious disadvantage if they travel by day. If your character has this, it is best to use the Day/Night (or Long Rest, whatever you want to call it) button. This button symbolizes that your character is resting and waiting until nightfall (or if it is already night you are resting and waiting until it is dawn) before they continue their travels. You will travel to your camp and gain the benefits of a Long Rest whenever you transition from day to night or night to day. This means you will heal all HP and restore all spell slots and special abilities. It will not use up your 2 Short Rest per day limit so that whether you are traveling by day or by night, you still get 2 Short Rests per Long Rest. Sometimes, party members will talk with you during these rests, so keep an eye out for these dialogue opportunities."

I, being a drow, click Day/Night button, I trigger the finding the campsite scene, and trigger the Shadowheart, "I'm not sure this is such a good idea," dialogue. She would naturally say this, because, in her mind, we're taking a senseless break after only traveling for like 5 minutes. So, naturally, she'd be unhappy to rest for like 12 hours. But you, being a drow, it only makes sense for you to want to travel by night. So you don't care what she thinks. Resting by night so neither you nor your half elf companion get disadvantage on rolls while you travel just makes the most sense.

So, what benefits are there in this?

1. Drow Sun Sensitivity is actually a thing, along with other creatures who have this trait, and traveling by night for a drow would be better than by day. Drow have extended dark vision, so it also provides them with an advantage over other characters who even have dark vision.
2. Advantages on Stealth checks while moving about at night. This is good for certain quests like sneaking into the goblin camp or through Moonhaven or sneaking up on the Hag's place or the Swamp Docks, or sneaking up on the Gnolls or the Gith or pretty much sneaking up on anyone on the surface.
3. Gives players the ability to make time pass within a single day. Thus, players actually have more control over the passage of time.
4. Gives players another opportunity for a Long Rest per day, cutting down on the ridiculous number of days you waste whenever you feel you need to Long Rest. (Like in the Underdark when you fight the minotaurs, need to long rest, fight the bulette, need to long rest, fight the duergar, need to long rest, fight the kua toas, need to long rest, and before you know it, a week's gone by down there because you're long resting after every fight.) Besides this, one of the main purposes of this concept is that you are not punishing players who want to travel most of the surface map by night - such as if you create a drow. If you have to use Short Rests just to get to night every day, then you have no short rests to use on your adventure if you start adventuring at night. So using Short Rests to make time pass from day to night would only make night travel less advantageous than day travel.
5. Gives more opportunities for dialogues to be triggered, such as Shadowheart's dialogue mentioned above or Gale's "Go to Hell," dialogue. If they actually put dialogues/camps on the game map somewhere, though, that would be my preference, but if they keep it as it is currently with off map camps and minicamps, I'd at least like the Day/Night button to trigger dialogues at camp - so have it send players to camp for dialogue purposes. This makes sense from a story perspective as well, because essentially by hitting the Day/Night button you are resting for like 10-12-ish hours. That's a long time, and it makes sense to then rest that long at camp. It also, then, provides more opportunities before you reach the grove to trigger those early dialogues.

I still want Short Rests to also potentially trigger dialogues, but ultimately I think the above change would definitely increase dialogue opportunities.

Please please please, Larian. We need Day/Night functionality in this game. It would REALLY make a huge world of difference.

And now, another idea on how to perhaps discourage Fast Travel/Long Rest spamming.

Instead of a chance of a random encounter or whatever has been discussed previously, what if you have to spend additional Camping Supplies to both Fast Travel and Long Rest (which would also include Send to Camp functionality). In other words, it would be sort of a Tax on Fast Travel.

So, here's how it would work. Assume the beach is the primary camp, since you can literally Long Rest on the beach. The further you go from the beach, the more Camping Supplies it would cost you to Fast Travel to it and Long Rest (or send something to camp). So, let's say from the waypoint you meet Gale to the beach waypoint, any time you long rest in that entire area, it would only be 5 Camping Supplies extra to do so. However, let's say you travel from the grove to the beach. That's 10 Camping Supplies. From Moonhaven to the beach, that's 15, etc.

However, mini-camps reduce the amount of Camping Supplies it costs to Long Rest. So, if you Long Rest in the Dank Crypt, you have a mini-camp right there. No additional tax to camp there. It's considered an actual Long Rest camp location. Same with Owlbear Cave (I think there's one there also).

What this symbolizes is that you have expended more energy and so forth to travel to the place, so you are more thirsty and hungry than you would be if you camped at a place that is closer. When you Send to Camp, it symbolizes that you had to actually travel back to camp, drop your stuff, and then return to where you were, travelling a WHOLE lot more (so maybe even double the Camping Supply Tax).

Anyway, the details I haven't exactly worked out, but at least that's something to somewhat discourage long rest spamming and fast traveling, providing some form of consequence.

Fast travel is just quality of life feature that allows us to trade few seconds loading for few (dozens) minutes of joging around ...

In other words if regular walking dont make our characters hungry ... it makes no sense for fast travel to do that.
And even IF it would ... we would not eat during the march but after during some resting time. :-/

Suggestions arround more food supply management would not work in BG3 in my opinion due to the map design.

There is way too much food in the game, I definitely agree. To the point that the system itself doesn't make sense at all...

But I'm not sure it should be something to manage all day long when you travel, when you short rest, when you long rest... It would require us to gather more crap items, to manage our inventories and I think it could lead to too many situations in which the player is stuck (or forced to walk to find food). Limitations through food work well in Solasta but because dungeons are linear and because you often have to get back to town...

Can you please GM tell me the consequences of not eating in Solasta ? I know that you're never stucked but I don't exactly remember what happen. Your last playthrough is more recent than mine

No food. No Long rest.

Problem is, food, again, is so easy to come by, especially with druid or ranger and goodberry, that it's again really more of an annoyance, especially at later levels. And in Solasta, the rest areas are again a bit too easy to access. Once you unlock one, you can go back to it at any time.

As far as managing more useless crap, the point is that you DO get so much food already. So, why not use it as a sort of Fast Travel Tax?

I don't know. I'm just trying to come up with SOME sort of discouragement for Fast Travel/Send To Camp/End Day besides random encounters, etc.

I don't know, Max. At the end of the day, there really doesn't seem to be a good solution. They actually tried the whole "Psychological Discouragement" bit by having Shadowheart say, "I'm not sure this is a good idea," and by having characters say, "You'll turn at any moment," or even "You could still turn at any time," bit later on.

You kidding right? O_o
I never understand how can magical food, that is lorewise suppose to sustain grown man for whole day give 1 unit of Camp Supplies. -_-

It's because Larian knew it would break their new food system that they homebrewed it.

For all intents and purposes, Goodberry should feed 10 people every day. If a druid or ranger reserves a spell slot at the end of each day, your party should never need food. That's the main purpose of the spell. Healing is only a perk.

So, 1 goodberry should equal 10 Camping Supplies, based on the current 40 CS cost per long rest.

See how food makes for a poor limitation? That's why it doesn't really work in Solasta either. Food is just an annoyance in D&D.

That said, for food to be more than an annoyance, we need less of it and the cost should be tweaked. It only matters if you are struggling to acquire enough. Then Goodberry becomes SUPER valuable.

I never played with goodberry and always use rations (not sure it's the EN word but I guess you'll understand).
My question was : what happen when you travel /rests without any rations in Solasta ?

That said, we have already suggested good solutions. It just need to be creative and refine them to make them perfect.

Yeah. To answer your question, sorry I wasn't clear, in Solasta, not having food means you can't long rest at all. You have to have at least four food in order to Long rest each and every time.

Two things made this be somewhat decent limitation. The first was that food was heavy. One food item added a considerable amount of weight to your total weight. The other was that they would only give you 4 food near each and every long rest location. The idea was, they were giving you one long rest, maybe two at most, per map location.

The weight was the big limiting factor. I found myself constantly needing to dump food because it was weighing me down too much. That said, there was nothing that kept me from going back to where I dumped the food so that if I needed to Long rest again, I could just pick up the food I dropped and long rest.

So honestly it wasn't much different from this game. I had, in the end, way too much food, and once I found a rest location I could just dump it at that location and come back later and still long rest as much as I want.

Now if they made it so that once you dump food something comes along and eats it, then it would have limited long rest. But again, with goodberry, I constantly just dumped food because my druid could always cast goodberry once per long rest and I'd always have food. So I never had to worry about food weight limitations. But, that is the whole point of the goodberry spell. It is to provide convenience to players who really don't want to have to worry about survival mechanics. It's one of the things that makes a druid and Ranger more valuable.

This is why you need a "pantry" at the camp where you can put all the food so you don't have to carry it around.... When you long rest, it should then automatically draw from the pantry.

But see that defeats the whole purpose. If you can just send it to Camp whenever you want to without any kind of consequences, then what is the point of even having food in the game at all? It's just useless waste of space. It's just an annoyance. There are no real consequences at all. There's nothing that gives it value.

That is my main problem with the whole system. It's actually kind of pointless and just creates a lot of clutter in your inventory. I pick up food. I Send to Camp with a push of the button. I no longer worry about weight limits for it. I need to rest, and there's plenty of food at camp. So much food I find that I could rest spam for weeks and still have enough. So why bother with food at all?

And even IF I start running out, I can just spend a few gold and buy more and send to camp.

Annoyance. MORE senseless item management. It therefore has no value.

What if they implemented a random encounters at camp feature where while you are adventuring your camp might get raided by bandits or animals that smell food, etc. This, a reason for leaving party members at camp. Party members at camp are then drawn into a fight to defend the camp to keep supplies from getting stolen.

So, best to not leave ALL your goods at camp, because you never know when thieves or wild animals might raid it.

Why not a more Darkest Dungeon approach.

In Darkest Dungeon you have a clear difference between Town (Camp, Open World) and Dungeon Zone.
Enter a Dungeon means no fast travel, restock or exchange Party members.

So a Dungeon can be a 2 long Rest Dungeon and you can use your Spells 3 times.
And every time you use a Camping Ressource or reach a certain point it Saves the current monster population.
After 2 long Rest you have no "Save Points" anymore and must clear the rest with onyl 1 usage of Spells.
Leave the Dungeon with no Save Points and long rest in the camp means the Monster Respawn every time.

This had the side effect like Risk versus Reward. Exhaustet Party Fight vs Monsters means a less Monster after "Save Point".

Sounds good to me. The current food system at least does not make much sense as a restriction for long rests. I would not mind it as payment for fast traveling, too.

I have no DnD experience but managing your resources seems to be a thing in TT. I'm not sure wether it would fit BG3, there are some fights where I would never ever like to go into exhausted. I'm still not decided wether I will play a Ranger or Barbarian or Priest at release. So, in case of the first I'm of the opinion that we need a very restrictive system for long rests, of course, in case of the second or third I'm of the very firm opinion that of course we need easy resting ...