Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Baldurs Gate 3 is ridiculously hard

1) You amited in that same post that this game is not turn based, but real time with pause ... wich is quite important difference
2) What does chaining system have in common with topic of difficiulty of combat in BG3?
3) Same question as abowe: Where did you get the idea that any progress should be discouraged? ... And following question: How does chaining link to that topic?

If we really deevolved on this forum to the point, where no matter the topic GM4Him will demand random encounters, resting limitations and 5e stats ... you will demand change for chaining system ... planetscapist will demand that nobody should pay me even slightest atention, bcs he decided so! ...
It would maybe be easier to put those it our signatures and just write "as usualy" to save time.

Open your mind and accept you are unconditionaly wrong ... and dont you dare to question it!

//Edit:
Funny enough, i have no problem with being wrong ...
But if you read those posts thoroughly enough ... you may find something interesting, we all are talking about completely different topics ... and none of them is even related to this topic itself.

Sometimes it seems to me like you people dont even see those topics over something that is told inside them ...

Take it now:
Someone just stated that one controlling system is ultimately better in every way and just state its a fact ... i repeat that just bcs he states something, it dont become a fact ... and then other people starts to persuate me that in their own experience, or experience of someone they know closely, described system is indeed better (aka the contain of that statement is not false) ...
Cool story, but i never said it isnt ...
All i claimed is that it isnt fact ... especialy since content of that statement is "what is better" wich is pure material of personal prefferences, and prefferences for particular usage of those controlling systems ... it doesnt really matter how many other people with same prefferences you find, its still just that this group of people clearly preffer that thing you described ... that dont mean that thing just "is better" ... it have its benefits, sure ... but it also have its own problems ... that is one of reasons both systems still exists in theese days.

But you people for some reason i dont quite understand keep persuating me that mouse and keyboards are more acurate ... and i must ask, why? Why do you keep persuating me about your own opinion about something im not even talking about? :-/
And as the matter of fact what does that even have in common with Baldur's Gate 3?

As usual, you derailed the thread Ragna...
That's what your quotes of every single sentences often lead to...

Once again... There are things that are not a matter of preferences. What is more or less efficient is not but ofc it's up to you to find that an objectively less efficient system is "better".

There's nothing to tell about the chain. It is less efficient and accurate both with a mouse+keyboard and with a controller... even if you like it better.

Once again we get to "its all your fault, we are flawless" ...
Sigh ... someone tell me please again how i should be open minded and admit my own errors from time to time.

It would be hilarious.

I apologise, I thought that it was easy enough to deduce that my complains regarding chaining system apply to real-time part of the game, considering turn-based mode doesn't have that feature.

My acknowlagment of Desp3 different nature, was only meant to preempt an argument that I expected from you: "that's a different kind of a game" ignoring that everything leading up to how encounter is resolved is very much one-to-one: Party of heroes, managed in realtime, with enemies moving in real time.


Just one of the things I mention as to why I don't think BG3 expects players to set up their teams into beneficial position before every interaction with NPCs. Not the strongest point I made either.

I dont think we can left the other part out tho ...
If some mechanic is implemented, it would work in both cases. :-/

As i remember it didnt work even back then.

Indeed we dont know if they even do ...
All i know, and all i tryed to say is that option is present ... and it have its results.

Ok first, I'll talk about BG3 since people would regret I don't.

Yep, BG3 is unbalanced and sometimes ridiculously hard.
Talking from my experience (old since I get a refund a long time ago), I remember how the red hat at the witch's hut was stupidly strong and kind of hard to fight. Well at the end it was just about staying at the highest place and pushing them... SO interesting... and so strategic (the same strategy for alla the game didn't look like a stragey for now but... meh).
and I remember the minotaurs in the underground, really, massively, stupid encounter. I beat them, but it wasn't really satisfactory.

From my point of view the problem is in the system itself.
Remember fighting all the goblins from their village.
On the ground it was lost, like wow, they are so many....
But... enjoy your shove. I placed my party on a really high ground and it became a long and boring 30mn fight.
I talk about it cause I read people saying "it's not hard it's about strategy". Well, when "strategy" is ever the same it's no more a strategy it's just the only way to play it. And when the fights in a game are either easy peasy and boring or hard as hell... it's not a good balanced game.
But it's what ? 2 years ? 3 years this problem have been told ? So... don't get your hopes too high and forget about the larian's politics "we listen to you and we respect BG3" cause they don't.


Btw, Balck Geyser have been released and I can't wait for the french version to try it. It looks like SO MUCH like BG. I hope some of you will try it too.




For Ragnarok, you don't even realized you're the one missreading the comments...

you said " Someone just stated that one controlling system is ultimately better in every way and just state its a fact"
but you're wrong.
Someone said (and you quoted him) "mouse and keyboard is objectivelly more accurate and efficient." which is a fact, proven by AusarViled's comment (and lot of articles on the internet).
So, yeah, mouse and keyboard is objectively more ACCURATE and EFFICIENT.
It's a fact.
and we try to make you get it cause if you can't get it it's a proof you can't handle fact and so there is no interesting conversation possible with someone who can't accept a simple fact as "mouse and keyboard are more accurate that controller".


I got a good experience of internet talking and, as I said earlier, I come read the posts here from time to time without commenting. So, I can tell you're the perfect exemple of people who just like to be right no matter the price.

One clue about it is how you put smileys everywhere like everything was a joke, int the intent to provoke people. It shows a big self-satisfaction feeling.

Exactly like when you put some taunt (cause we all know it's really effective to have an interesting conversation). Like when you answer me
"Open your mind and accept you are unconditionaly wrong ... and dont you dare to question it! :D"
Nice trolling attitude. Typical narrow-minded and smugness.

As when you pointed out the difference in Desp3 instead of focusing on the comparison. Even if you prefectly get the point fo Wormerine, you focused on the differences on purpose just to enjoy to refute his arguments. You knew it was irrelevant and just a waste of time but you don't care cause you just refuse to change your mind. You prefer to be looking for every little fallacious argument than accepting to change your mind.
So you prefer to waste energy and patience of your interlocutor hoping for him to finally loose his temper or ended up tangled in his own explanation or in another completely different subject.


You want for everybody to think your an open and bright mind (typical pro-looking for debate forumer), but you really just act like a troll. A polite and good writing troll, but still a troll.

Shouldnt you say "was" rather than "is"? Just to be clear?


Depends on the player ...

If you want just stand on high ground and shove, you can ... it would be boring, stupid and broken ... but you can.

Or you can at least try ... use that think you carry on your neck ... and think something better ... basicaly anything would be better, so it should not be too hard.
If you want to see some examples, i recomend WolfheartFPS ... that man do playthroughs on every patch, sometimes even multiple of them ... and in every game he try to pick different spells, to keep it fresh.

And gues what? He do not overuse shove ... and he usualy dont loose. :-/
Hit best achievment i have seen so far was killing Gith patron on level 3. O_o


That is the beauty of this game. :3
They are neither ... but players can make them both, by their (good or bad) decisions.


Its not "a fact" ... it is a statement.
If you create statement, you should support it with either some logical arguments, or sources that will contain either that, or data supporting your opinion ... otherwise its just a statement.

And that is EXACTLY the difference i was talking about all this time ... and you still dont understand. -_-


I dare to presume you are talking from own experience?
I mean, im aware that judging others is easy ... and sometimes tempting ... but such statement didnt exactly seemed as written by humble and nice person. :-/


Cute.
Shame that while you "read the posts here from time to time without commenting" ... you somehow missed all those posts, when i explained (mostly to GM4Him who few times also get the idea that those smilies are there to mock him) ... that while i can say "hello" in at least five different ways, wich all have different meaning ... i am only able to write it in one way.
Therefore i add smilies, wich are suppose to add tone of that written text. That is their all, and only purpose.

The fact that some people around here are trying hard to find some hidden (and usualy maleficent) meaming behind them seems sad to me ... but also not really my problem. :-/

It may shock you ... but when my smilie smiles, i smile ... when my smilie is sad, im sad ... when my smilie is trowing confeti around, i usualy talk about Halsin, or see Icelyn talking about Halsin ... this is how they work ...
Obviously i have no way to to force you to read them corectly ...
All i can say is that this is the way im expressing myself, and if you want to spend your energy trying to twist and missinterpret my words ... have fun, i gues.


Thank you.

I coul have also use this sign:

But i presumed it was not necesary.


Please tell me more about myself ... it seems like you know me better than i do ... or at least it seems like you think you do.
(Should i put here that sign again?)

I would say i focused on those differences, bcs i find them important ... and if you would read futher, you might even seen why ...
But why waste breath, since you allready believe to know all and every truth.


From you i shall take it as compliment.
Missleaded and kinda rude ... but i gues this is just what you are.

I wonder how to put it ... but i cant find the right words ... there is expression in my language, but its hard to translate ...
When fool calls you a fool its much less alarming than when fool calls you a genius. :-/
Or something like that.

No hard feelings tho ... speaking for myself at least.
You said it yourself, you put your group on high ground and keep shoving ... so it seems you tend to use simple and fast solutions, no shame in that, many people do theese days ... no matter how uneffective, boring, stupid, or mislead they may be ... if that is your way, be my guest.
I presume its easy to just put sticker with word "troll" on someone forehead and put them into ignore ... it certainly is much easier, then actualy try to understand what are they trying to say. :-/
Personaly i dont really like simple solutions, they rarely (almost never in fact) lead to right outcome.

No he isn't, but argument went out of hand so you would need to dig further back for the original catalyst. I do genuilly believe that a classic system that allows player to control multiple party members is ultimatelly better in every way then the chaining system, that allows for controlling only a single character and has AI attempting to bring others with you.

It most certainly have its perks ...

"Shouldnt you say "was" rather than "is"? Just to be clear?"
typical "I get what you said, but I prefer focus on your writing just to loose time and show I am right at least the writing."
typical troll. typical self-satisfied.

"use that think you carry on your neck"
typical troll. being rude. begin insulting. typical flamer.


"You said it yourself, you put your group on high ground and keep shoving ... so it seems you tend to use simple and fast solutions"
Did I say I did it for every fights ?
No. But it was simplier to suppose it in order to be rude again. cause this is how you make your point, by implicitly insulting people and pushing them to loose their temper.

All your comment is a proof of how a bad conversation partner you are.
As I said, you have a good way with words but you're still just a troll with a lot of smugness.
You think I'm rude, but I'm just warning you.
You're toxic for conversations.

My Problem is. I can't find the Proper Dokumentation. I don't want to buy a D & D 5th Version. It's in English and I'm German and it is not fun to read dry stuff like this in not German.
I struggle from time to time so I cheat on my way I reload quit often. That is no fun but it works. I like the Divinity Sin mechanic better, by the way. Love all the little stories in between.

Or just my way to point out that your information are outdated and no longer relevant, since this combat (aswell as most others) has ben allready changed multiple times during all those patches that came out since you refunded.

Take your pick.
I mean i know you allready did, this is just rethoric.


This is actualy interesting ...
How exactly it is rude, or insulting to presume you are using head for thinking?

I mean few people around here sometimes make the expression that they indeed think with their Ass ... that would be rude and insulting to presume in my opinion ... but if you count yourself between them and demand me to recognize it, i can ... i just didnt expected that you would. O_o
But if you do ... just ask and i will, you have my word.


Well actualy ... you did:
Since if this sentence isnt expressing usage of the same approach over and over ... i dont really know what would be.


Well, the feeling is mutual my ... fellow forum user.

But do you want to know what really puzzles me?
What exactly are you doing ... im so "bad conversation partner" and so horribly "toxic person" ... why do you keep talking to me?
And as the matter of fact, why do you even keep talking on this forum at all? I mean you clearly didnt came to express yourself abot curent game difficiulty ... maybe you missed this, but this topic isnt named "tell us why do you dislike Ragnarok".

So ... what exactly is your busines, or point ... if you dont mind me asking?

And just for the record ... i know what this is about:

Such as...?

"Well actualy ... you did:
Quote
Well, when "strategy" is ever the same it's no more a strategy it's just the only way to play it.
Since if this sentence isnt expressing usage of the same approach over and over ... i dont really know what would be. laugh"
no. I didn't.

"use that think you carry on your neck"
typical troll. being rude. begin insulting. typical flamer.
This is actualy interesting ...
How exactly it is rude, or insulting to presume you are using head for thinking?
nice way to cute a quote. Let me rectify it for you.
here is your quote "Or you can at least try ... use that think you carry on your neck ... and think something better ... basicaly anything would be better, so it should not be too hard."
You didn't say I used it. You suggest me to used it, implying I wasn't.

again twisting word as the smart and polite troll you are.



If I spent time talking to you it's cause I can't handle your kind : smug and toxic. But yeah, it's a waste of time. sadly I'm this stubborn.

Don't be, Zefhyr. Do not engage with poor or derailing behaviour; you're only adding to it by trying and entertaining him. Rag Can be a healthy poster capable of joining in on discussions sensibly and adding constructive opinions, at times, but only when he does not have a project, like this, to amuse him. Don't give him one; don't respond to the derailments or the laser-focus on irrelevant asides. Rag has had a number of very good ideas at times, and has, over the course of my time here at least, made a number of valuable contributions to the forum... but the flip-side is this behaviour, and the only real response is to not engage it. Calling out other people out as trolling is also not helpful, and is not constructive posting practice... if you find yourself making a post where the only contents of it is to argue or defame (however justified or accurate you may feel it is) another poster, then take a step back and don't; it's not helping - or if you must, do it as a report, and explain why you feel it's inappropriate, rather than a public post.

==

The topic of this thread has wandered dramatically at this point, but I'd like too encourage folks to try too keep it at least somewhat related to the game itself; for my part, I'm in the camp that says:
"The control scheme is arse, and makes playing the game more of a fight than it needs to be",
"The hardest fights so far are ones I've had with the UI", and
"Encounters balanced around thee prevalence of Larian's personal home-brew mechanics, which dominate most other class-based options in their implementation, creates a broad rift in actual content challenge, where everything is ridiculously easy to cheese without any challenge at all, and simultaneously overbalanced to destructive levels if you don't use that home-brew inanery... and as such it's terribly designed at the moment."

I agree with the third statement, but I wanted to highlights these two.

So many times, I have felt that I am fighting the controls and the UI as a pre-requisite in order to be allowed to actually play the game (be it playing a fight, exploring the world, or navigating conversations).

In that light, I fully agree with the thread's title : as a video game, BG3 is ridiculous hard to play.

Right, right... Thx Niara.

Ok let's go back to the topic then from my past experience.

There was a fight I remembered which is, I think, a good example of what's wrong with BG3 system.

It was against duergar in the underground,at a moment a mushroom could follow you.
There was really really high ground, they encounter was triggered when you arrive at a certain point and duergar just appeared out of nowhere (why not).
The point is, the first time I encoutered them, I, obsvisouly, wasn't prepared. So in one or two turn they had push half of my team over the edge.
So, I reload and tried to have a better placement (which is, with this system of chainlock really inconvenient). But the duergar focus on ONE thing, shoving my team.
So after some tries, I finally played the shoving game too and that's it. I forgot about spells, skills, I just focus on placement and shove.
So this game which was ridiculously hard became ridiculously easy.
The point is, the ennemy are too aware of the shove's might.

I'm not a bad nor a pro gamer, I'm a casual gamer, a casual but massive RPG gamer. And I never played a game this uninteresting. I had fights with spells and skills and some "strategy" but at the end, everytime there is a really massive challenge, I feel the shove tentation cause it's the only skill who could even kill a dragon with the good high !

For the comparison, I remembered clearly BG1 and 2. There was a lot of fights, some easy, some harder. I remembered the lich, the drake-child, the giant or the siren. There was hard fights, in different ways, but I managed to succeed it byt different ways and it was, at the end, pretty fun, cause I could imagine different ways.
In BG3, when I encounter the redhat after the witch disappearance, they just killed my team in no time ! So I tried again and again but it was uselesss, they was just too strong.... so I ended up on the highest place of the hut to shove and shot.

So, I have no doubt there is people outside who find lot of ways to deal with this encounters, but if a casual but experience gamers like me didn't, I think there is a probleme in the balance and even the system.

Of course, it's just my opinion and maybe Larian is doing an RPG for hardcore gamer, but I think it will be... a bad idea.

By the way, and again to compare, Pathfinder is hard, like damn hard !, but it's way more understandable and approachable. I suffer playing Pathfinder but I enjoyed it cause I could get where the difficulty came for each fights and I feel relieved when I find the way to beat the game. It's a feeling BG3 hardly give. Maybe at the beginnin, but once you understand "shove" is the answer to everything, it's disappointing.
And, no, it's not the player responsibility to not use a feature of the game in order to enjoy the game more. It's the Game Designer responsibility to design his game in order for the player to enjoy it.


To conclude, I think the system is more a problem than the monsters themself. But it's just my opinion.

@Zelhyr the game has changed a lot, especially since patch 5.

Highground is now a bonus/malus, not a condition to win or die. Jumping as a bonus action doesn't disengage you anymore.
I remember having a hard time too with the redcap and the minotaurs. I can't be sure because things are easier after so many playthtrough, but I think they've also rebalanced some creatures.

I don't think Larian is doing games for hardcore gamers but they really have a hard time at balancing their combats, especially because they have a hard time at balancing their custom mechanics with DnD (items included).
The game can still be very easy if you abuse Larian's OP cheese, like in exemple shoving, dipping, barrelmancy and surfaces... but it's less visible than it was before because they listenned to players on important points and balanced/removed some of the bigger issues (highground and blackstab, jump and disengage).

There are still a lot of things to tweak to really have an interresting and balanced tactical turn based game imo... But patch 5 was definitely a huge improvement.

Agreed. At the end of the day, this is very true.

"Hard" is such a vague statement though. There are games that are hard, sometimes unfairly so but are still entertaining, even for low skill players. Somehow I found 5 hours to watch this Noah's Dark Souls 1-3 essay. What I found fascinating is seeing how somehow with completely different skillset he approached and enjoyed the game. I am mentioning it because he "butchered" quite a few enocunters by cheesing them, and had a jolly good time doing that in most cases. Those were also encounters I enjoyed really much fighting "honorably".

I don't think having hard encounters that feel overwhelming is bad, and I don't think an ability to cheese encounters is bad. Where BG3 struggles compared to DS is that it doesn't have solid core experience. BG3 doesn't have a well balanced and designed core, so it can't really engage player in an interesting way - "mastery" of the system is unenjoyable.

That's also, I think, where the BG1&2 cheese differs from BG3. I did cloud kill to death dragons off screen, or combed time stop with multiple dragon breaths and rest between encounters etc. but I did that because I didn't want to engage with the content, not because I felt the game demands me. I knew there was encounter I could engage with and figure out, but I just coundn't be bothered. BG3 just isn't there (yet?). When it gets hard, it gets hard unfairly so - it gets hard in the way that limits valid tools at players disposal, rather then encouraging them to make most of what they have.