Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Friends is insanely OP

In BG 3 his cantrip can be used in dialogues and that's it.


In DnD 5:

1) The (almost) only way to actually use this cantrip in a dialogue is to spend your dear sorcery point to cast is using Subtle Spell (and to have this Metamagic in the first place).
2) After the effect of the spell ends, the creature understands that it was influenced by magic and reacts accordingly, mostly becomes hostile.

It makes it too OP. My favorite class in dnd 5 is sorcerer, and it is already good enough. I undestand some quality of life improvements in a video game format, but this implementaton just makes it too easy for no-reload walkthrough.

Yes, there are many OP things in the game (like being able to actually cast 2 spells in 1 turn using Quickened Spell which is not allowed in dnd 5, it only allows you to cast 1 spell as a bonus action instead of the action, you can't then spend your action on a spell), but this is SO SO SO SO SO OP that when I learned about it I felt like I had to go and share this on the internet. It absolutely must be adressed somehow.

Maybe different rulesets for different difficulty levels?

Last time i used this spell, the NPC had become hostile one it ended. O_o
Ofcourse, asuming they were still on screen.

Friends is also a powerful combo with the charlatan background. The cantrip makes it easy to talk your way out of combat, whereupon the background grants inspiration points which can be used in later conversations. No-one willing to talk will ever lay a hand on you.

I don’t think Larian mind. For one, BG3 is about discovery. Finding powerful abilities and cool ways to use them is one of this game’s strenghts. For two, re-loading isn’t much fun. We all know how cruel the dice can be. I welcome the help. For three, Friends has been nerfed once in early access. Targeted NPCs will become hostile if you stick around long enough for the spell to end. And there’s inherent risk in using a caster for conversations, as they’ll be on the front line of combat should things go sideways.

Also, just for the record ...
Feel free to corect me, but i believe that Subtle Spell isnt the only way to cast this cantrip in tabletop at all ... i would more likely call it the only way to cast it UNNOTICED by its target.

True, I meant just that, unnoticed. Well, in many cases if a person notices you casting a spell in a conversation, they might start being hostile right away. It's up to DM.

Well if it's causing the target to become hostile after it fades, good. I didn't know that. If it follows the rules and lasts 1 munite, even better.
I disagree with the first part though. There is nothing to discover here. If you have this cantrip, you can use it every single time you have a charisma check, you don't have to dicover anything. What actually is finding cool ways to use abilities is choosing Subtle Spell as your metamagic and then casting this cantrip using this metamagic in critical conversations only (you have to manage your sorcery points pool after all).
DnD doesn't even work with save/load, the dice doesn't matter anymore in this case, this is why I'm waiting for difficulty level with no save/load allowed. And in this (more real-life-dnd-session-like case) Friends is too OP. I understand that it's not so OP if you can save/load every conversation anyway.

That can be applied even here ...

For one, (lets put aside for a second that EVERYTHING is up to DM ... including rules that are written) right now Larian is our DM and as it seems thei alowed it.

And for two, i would honestly dislike such approach from my DM ... second person next to the charmed can notice, and become unfriendly (if not exactly hostile) why not, that would make sense ... but not that person who is charmed, yes he will be aware that i charmed him once the spell goes off, but right now he is under the effect of spell that litteraly makes him believe that we are friends ... there is no way he could be hostile to me, UNLESS he is also caster and used counterspell.

I see your point. Not much challenge in selecting or casting a cantrip.

For new players though, it’s good to have some low hanging fruit. If you’re trying every cantrip out, it’s satisfying to find one as good as this. Same goes for Guidance and Eldritch Blast. First seeing how powerful they are feels great, then you use them all the time without a second thought.

Still, I get why free advantage on every charisma check can make the game feel too easy. I’ve failed my fair share of rolls with advantage so I’ll stick to easy mode, but I’m sure the final product will deliver the right difficulty setting for you.

I like the way it functions now. You basically finish up the conversation quick if you used friends to help you in a dialogue check, then run away before spell runs out and the npc realises he was tricked. If you get away in time the npc wont turn hostile, but you also lose a bit of disposition with that npc when it runs out.

The way it functions now is very nice actually. Before it was OP, now its tuned down. And because you can run away to avoid conflict its not as useless as it would be in regular dnd, you just use it sparingly to avoid negative disposition etc.