Hi guys,
Yet another suggestion for the resting / fast travelling system.
A very detailed one. I think nothing is an issue in multiplayer. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
RESTING IS IMPORTANT
Resting is a core mechanic of DnD. It define the game, it define the rules, it define the experience.
Long and short rests define the classes, their gameplay and their uniqueness.
It also define the gameplay. Short rests allow you to make significant tactical choices while long rests are a real break in your journey.
You're leveling up. You're choosing what you're going to eat. You choose the spells to prepare for the next day.
A few other core mechanics are balanced by resting. The spellslot system itself doesn't make any sense if resting is not defining the rules.
BG3 oversimplified resting and a main feature has become a convenient healing button while the other one is only a convenient healing button with a few (and cool) companion and story cinematics.
They also added the "choosing what you're going to eat", which is cool. But it's not enough gameplay and story-wise.
This thread is also related to the fast travel system so I'll talk about it too.
Try to understand the big picture rather than each points one after the other. This is the description of a system I'm trying to explain. My exemples may not be perfect, I may have forgotten some locations and so on...
MAIN CAMPS AND MINI CAMPS - LONG RESTING AND FAST TRAVELLINGMini camps are cool and they add another RP dimension to resting.
But it won't ever be 'immersive' if you rest in another dimension out of danger when you choose to rest in the middle of a dungeon, and if you're teleported in exemple to a "spider nest mini camp environment" when you long rest in the hag's lair.
I'd like to rework the "main" and "mini" camp system to redesign what they are.
- Main camps = camps located on main areas. Main areas are : Outside, Underdak, Grymforge. If you click to the long rest button, you're fast travelling to the main camp depending where you are.
- Mini camps = camps physically located on specific "closed" area. You cannot fast travel to mini camps. You have to click the campfire to enable it and allow long resting.The idea is to enhanced to dungeon to make them become real "dungeons". We should not be able to rest whenever we want and wherever we want to sleep in dungeons. That's their main design purpose.
Of course dungeons are not dungeons if it's filled with friendly creatures. What is a dungeon and what is not should be clearly defined by the game.
We should not be able to fast travel out of "hostile dungeons" but it should not be too challenging. The point is not to make the game harder. 2 combats between two long rests seems fair.
- We aren't able to click the long rest button in specific areas
- We aren't able to fast travel in specific areas
- The game set a few interactive items in specific spots. You have to click on to enable the mini camp. After you click the item the sleeping bags appear and the fire is lighted. Another solution would be that after you enable the mini camp, a small area arround it become a "long resting allowed room").
- When we click a campfire (active mini camp) our characters sit on their sleeping bags or something like that. You now enter the "long rest in mini camps gameplay phase" and something systematic and systemic should happen to tell it to the player.
-- There is a mini camp to set up in : --- the goblin's dungeon
--- the hag's lair
--- the spider nest
--- the entrance of the necromancer lair
--- the zentharim's lair
--- the owlbear cave
--- the dank crypt
- We cannot fast travel or click the long rest button (have to click an active mini camp to long rest) in these areas :-- the goblin's dungeon (after you kill the first leader)
-- the hag's lair (if you fight with her in the tea house)
-- the spider nest
-- the entrance of the necromancer lair
-- the zentharim's lair (if you have killed one of them)
-- the owlbear cave
-- the dank crypt
-- *the grove tunnel
-- *the emerald grove
*The additionnal areas are very small areas with eventually 1 combat. A combat you cannot avoid if you have the specific "permutation".
For areas in which there's a mini camp, at worst you come from the oustide (fast travel + long rest allowed) and have 2 combats before you can long rest in a mini camp. Most often it's one, and sometimes you can put the camp before any encounter (i.e cellar in the necromancer's lair).
Not being able to get outside dungeons through fast travelling when you're in a hostile dungeon would greatly enhance the resting system but it doesn't mean : a harder game, a mechanical limitation, a tedious walking phase is you want to move to a main camp (at worst, 10 to 30 seconds).
The more you rest, the more you spend food.
- We should only camp with our 4 active characters.
- We shouln't have our camp chest in mini camp.
We may have to manage our supplies a bit more (eventually, thx to goodberries) and have some in our inventory. But the game is not harder if you don't use your chest to gather all the food and keep some food in your inventory (i.e 1 or 2 supply bags)
At worst, as already stated it takes 10 to 30 seconds to get out of a dungeon to enter a location in which you can fast travel or click the long rest button.
At best I guess it could really be a situation players like. "We don't have food, check the area guys." For players like me, it would make "food supply management" an interresting gameplay mechanic.
- You cannot prepare your spells and level up if you're not in a main camp or in a "long rest at mini camp gameplay phase".
-- During the "long rest in mini camps gameplay phase" you can :
--- do anything you can do at your main camps (except roaming, talking to characters that aren't with you and pick things in your chest.. Mostly talking about consumables, inventory and hotbar management, check you character sheet and so on...)
--- prepare your spells
--- level up
--- choose your food supplies upon what you have in your inventory
It's not harder if you have to camp to level up or to prepare your spells. That's why scrolls are usefull for and at worst, you only have 1 more combats before being able to long rest or 10 to 30 seconds to walk.
The game should consider and show us that "preparing our spells" as an important decision even if players can easily find a solution if they forgot to prepare something that is absolutely necessary (nothing really is imo).
- Cinematics / dialogs only occur in the main camps (i.e Raphael, Companions dialogs, handcrafted events,...)
- If a character has something to say related to his personnal story, a yellow ! can appear on their portrait (rather uppon it's head) and they can say something like "I'd like to talk with you in our camp, could we stop there tonight please ?"
- The food supply system is reworked. There is now 3 rests levels :
-- 1 to 49% food = you recover 25% of your spellslots/class features/hit dices (minimum 1).
-- 50 to 99% food = partial rest = you recover 50% of your spellslots/class features/hit dices (minimum 1).
-- 100% food = full rest = you recover 100%% of your spellslots/class features/hit dices.
It doesn't make sense that you have the same rest levels from 1 to 99% of food supply.
- Resting at a mini camp automaticaly save the game. The game lack auto saves.===> The system as a whole should enhance the game immersion-wise, story-wise, gameplay-wise, experience-wise. Players that disagree with the "gameplay enhancement" are not limited and they have convenient solutions if necessary.
===> It should make it a better DnD game and it should lead to a better role-playing experience told by a DM who provides a more coherent overall narrative.
SHORT RESTSShort rests should allow us to make tactically interresting decisions.
It should be more than a button to regain a few HP and it doesn't have to be complicated at the same time.
- The hit dice system should be implemented and should be under the player's control. An "auto roll button" is possible ofc.
- We should only be allowed to use the class features that are active during a short rest in the PHB (i.e arcane recovery) during a "short rest gameplay phase".
- When we short rest our characters could gather (or something like that), waiting for us to end our "short rest gameplay phase".
There have to be some kind of systematic and systemic short "cutscene" that shows the player that he's entering another gameplay phase.
-- During a short rest gameplay phase you can :
--- Roll your hit dices
--- Use specific class features
--- Use specific consummables
--- Manage your hotbar and your inventory, check the map, open the character sheet and so on. Not complicated and not very intrusive. At worst you have a 3 second "cutscene" + click the auto roll button + click the "arcane recovery button" + see 3 second cutscenes. 10 seconds lost.
At best it's tactically interresting, we have a real break to manage or check whatever we want, it contribute to ... the classes uniqueness through different hit dices and class features (being able to use a class feature during a short rest is a feature by itself).
EVENTS AT CAMPThe world is frozen in BG3 and every systems from NPCs to time are only reacting to the player's actions. No one seems to live outside the players decisions.
In RPGs well designed worlds should give the feeling that they're alive. I will focus on resting but of course, there could be more suggestions to improve this feeling (NPCs routine, story events, Day/night cycle,...).
BG3 has to implement events that can happen randomly. Not random events or encounters. Scripted events that have a chance to happen under specific circumstances.
The best solution would be to
create events in camps. It's an "easy" choice because there are in a specific dimension (closed area). On top of that, there are already cinematics in those camps. The 3 main camps.
When our characters arrive to the surface or the underdark camp (not sure it's usefull for the grymforge camp), when they're sleeping or eventually when they wake up... some events may trigger.Random encounters are often boring. It could eventually be a "type" of event among other, but it should never be more than that.
cRPG needs to rework and rebuild the classic "random encounters" and BG3 could be one of the first game with well designed and interresting gameplay-wise handcrafted events that appear randomly under specific conditions.
In my opinion this would also create psychological limitations to long resting. Players have to think about it, just a bit. It's not really a gameplay issue if they don't, there's always (or most often, as you which) a pacific solution to these events.
At worst there's a very small negative effect, at best it's a very role play and enjoyable situation.
On top of that it would be a small step to another core mechanic of DnD. The "ressources management".
It does a bit with the food supplies but it's only about items / inventory management. In my opinion it works well in DnD video games when you also have to manage your class features and your spellslots.
These events doesn't create mechanical limitations but it create conditions that will make some players think that they have to be carefull when they choose to use a spellslots or a class features. You don't always know when you may need your last spellslot.
Once again, at worse it's a very small negative effect for someone, at best it's a mechanic that improve the game world-wise, story-wise and gameplay-wise to someone else.
In my opinion it would create a feeling of insecurity, a notion of uncertainty that would make the world more alive, the story more consistant,the gameplay and the overall experience more interresting.
Exemples.
- You arrive at your camp. A cutscene trigger. The characters staying at the camp are all hidden. You see your group approaching and you see 3 wolves are looking for food.
What are you doing ? You have 3 options.-- You stay hidden. The wolves are leaving, you loose 20 food supply (whatever where they come from), the long rest at camp gameplay phase start.
-- You try to distract them, sending food further. Skill check. Success = you loose 10 food, the wolves are leaving. Fail = you loose 10 food, you have to fight. The long rest at camp gameplay phase start.
-- You fight them. You're fighting in the camp with your 4 characters. You don't loose any food and the long rest at camp gameplay phase start.
- You're sleeping and one of your characters is woken up by a girl crying. Your characters now stands on their feet and the girl is running to your camp. She ask for help and a few bandits appear. A dialog start and they ask you to deliver the girl.
What are you doing ? You have 4 options.-- You're okay. As an evil person just like you, they take the girl and give you something (a potion, 30 gold, a scroll or whatever)
-- You' choose the second dialog. Intimidation check. Success = they leave. Fail = they fight.
-- You choose the third dialog choice. Another check. Success = they ask you to pay for her. Agree = they leave, Disagree = they fight. Fail = they fight.
-- You fight them to save the innocent girl.
- You arrive at your camp and you see a group of goblins eating.
You have 4 options. What are you doing ?-- Talk with them to explain that the camp is not abandonned. You invite them to eat. You loose 20 food supply and they leave.
-- Talk with them. Skill check. Fail = combats. Sucesss = they leave.
-- You try to surprise them. Skill check. Success = Surprise round. Fail = first round with disadvantage.
-- You just fight them, usually.
Thats is just exemples.
I don't think Larian would have to create tons of "mini handcrafted dialogs/combats". With this whole system in mind an average player should not long rest in the surface or the underdark camp more than what ? 20 times ?
With a pool of let's say 10-20 events for act 1 would already be awesome (5-10 for the underdark main camp and 5-10 for the surface main camp).
The game should not be ashame if it doesn't have 50 different events to show. Players are bored of random encounters because it's only 1 event again and again.
If the % to trigger those events are well adjusted and if conditions are well defined, most players should not see all of them in a single playthrough.
Ofc every event shouldn't occur more than once. And if the players are resting way too often it's not a problem, nothing happen anymore.
On top of that, conditions to trigger events could be a little bit more elaborated depending the number of different events.
- We could say that the "wolves" events may only trigger IF you have Lae'zel in your group or in your camp. So she's hidden, but sh come to talk with the main character we he arrive at camp to explain the situations.
You have 0% chances without her in your group, 30% with her (or 15%, or 10%, or 50%,...)
- We could also imagine that events only appear IF you have made specific choices. IF you have killed the druids, IF you have killed the goblins,...
Whatever there are a tons of possibilities to create something really interresting.
It's better to experience than seeing the same cinematic handcrafted 7 times for each minicamps, it also enhance the game and the resting mechanic world-wise, story-wise, gameplay-wise, role play wise,...
+ It could also be a thing in mini camps, eventually. But the main focus should be on main camps imo.
FAST TRAVELING THROUGH A MAPI'll re-post this one here because it is very important immersion, gameplay and experience-wise according to me.
Choose a location to move to is a gameplay feature. Click a name on a the list isn't a good one. And it's also not a good visual presentation.
We're playing with a not really good region map for monthes. The map when you click "M" give usefull information (at best) when we're roaming the land. But most of them are useless when we're fast travelling.
What do a player have to know when he's going to fast travel ?
- How to go to villages and other important spots
- Where there's an active quest, which quests and and eventually your progression.
- Eventually where there are merchants or other specific things.
Being able to exactly see on which path we're going to be teleported if we choose a specific destination is not a usefull information.
We have to locate the main points to choose where we're going. Beautifull icons (and there are on the worldmap) are only what players need.
A world map or a region map that has the same "kind" of design than the worldmap- One for the Surface
- One for the Underdark
- One for Grymforge
With icons representing important locations you can travel to.M or "fast travel button" = Open this map with icons.
You just put you mouse upon one of them, it's now highlighted, eventually a popup opens to "say something usefull", you click on it, eventually a confirmation popup. Done.
This would absolutely increase the value and the appeal of the map design, the environments and the sceneries because our DM would show us on a beautifull world or region map the noticeable spots on the area.
Exactly like when you visit a town. The devs should show us what is beautifull to see in their world and what "site" or "monument" we could visit.
Immersion, and eventually lore-wise, it is also important that we don't have the feeling that we're magically teleported everywhere.
Exactly when we visit a town with a tourist map, it would give the feeling that we're roaming and walking an unkown land, discovering everything between the noticeable sites of the map.
It also allow to "physically" locate the main camps (even if it's in an independant closed area) on a map players use often, especially if a click to the long rest button was sending us to this map to confirm the long rest/fast travel to camp.
It would give the feeling that we're looking at a region map before travelling to a location. Not that we used our superpowers to be magically teleported or OP tons of magical portals no one but Gale has ever noticed in the area.
It could eventually allow you to give additionnal informations (i.e a small mini camp button, greyed or colored depending if it has been activated yet or not, detailed quests lines on a "mini quest book" showing every quests individually when your mouse is on the "active quest" icon,...)
There's only pros, in my opinion.
We're playing with a terrible (I have to say it again) region map for more than one year. Something not working well because it doesn't represent the world well when you don't already know it, but also not very helpful gameplay-wise.
These maps are ok for secondary area but not to show the act 1 big picture.
Ofc course it doesn't prevent to keep a 100% not so good gameplay "region map" when we click "M" and another one when we click the long rest button. Or a zoom in/out with a transition between the 2 maps.
Anyway please Larian. Focus a bit more on immersion and the way you're writing the story with us.
Everyone would be winners if the maps and the job of your map designer (2D/3D) were better presented to the players.
===> Beautifull icons on a beautifull world or region map to fast travel, please.Link to the first suggestion with a picture of something I had in mind a few monthes ago. Everything may not be up to date with what I've said here.
https://forums.larian.com/ubbthread...s=fast+travel&Search=true#Post727408That's it !
Thanks for reading. I hope you'll agree with this one. i really think it would be a great and elegant solution to translate the PnP rules in a very good DnD based video game.
