it reads as though you have an academic understanding of the concept and what it is supposedly about, but one that has been built up as a collection of known rules – as though you do not have any actual qualic understanding of the experience of it.
Actualy i believe that i understad it ... it still feels a little alien (is that corect word? Anyway i believe the feeling is mutual.) since my approach to same is quite different, and i must admit that i dont agree with almost anything you said.
But my goal was not to accept your ways, but to understand them ... and i believe i gathered and processed enough data to do now.
(Still can be wrong tho.)
Its the same as my way to build a sentence ...
Some may sound weird in english, and sometimes i can focus on wrong parts and get wrong impression of soemthing ... but that is just extended effect of that my brain will allways work in my language, no matter what i try to translate to.
You fall back on repeating that it looks to you as though people are just saying 'immersion' as an argument against things they don't like, whatever they are
Speaking about "out-of-context manner" ...
I would like to remind you that i said that people use "immersion" as an argument against things they just simply "dont like" ... in topic about sheating weapons on their back.
Wich is something that in my quite honest opinion is matter of PURE aestetic prefferences, especialy if we can agree (and some of us did) on that those weapons *dont* "float behind our back", it is just the way this game shows it, wich isnt perfect for immersion, true, but also its not quite important if the topic is hip or back ... also especialy (as i showed in previous post with ingame screenshot) when we concider size of weapons in this game, wich would as people used to use in that topic "logicaly" make sheating on hip just as impossible as on back.
So, to put it simply: There is no "whatever they are".
This was said in hip/back sheating topic ... and it belongs there and only there.
We could take the badger example:
It doesn't matter whether I use the ability to burrow into the hanging cage (to, say, get the cool loot on the dead skeleton there): I don't – but I see that it is possible, and I cannot choose not to see that it is possible. I cannot choose to avoid seeing that this is possible before the game shows me that it is; after that I know that it is, and I'm reminded that it is every time I wish to use the ability.
I belive this is the core difference between our approach to our immersion ...
I understand that you as a player cannot "unsee" the fact that game allows you to burrow into the cage.
What i was trying to say, when we were talking about this particular example ... is that i would most likely never even get to this situation, since i usualy see exactly the spot where i want to burrow when i choose that i will burrow, since im immersed so i try to think as that character ... and the only way i can think of you as a player, can find out that you can actualy burrow into that hanging cage ... is that you choose to burrow and for some reason move your cursor into that cage, or simply start moving it over the screen to find out on wich places you can burrow.
And for me, THAT is the point, when you broke your immersion ... not when you find out that the engine allows you this, but when you were searching where you can burrow ... since you no longer work with your character information, you are checking all possibilities that engine gives you ... and that is simply not immersive for me.
We may never agree on this, you have your ways to play, i have mine ... and i believe that both is fine.
Best i can hope for is that we understand each other.
Beyond that, further still, enemies with access to the ability will most definitely abuse it against me and wave it in my face in impossible ways... and every time it comes up, that's another note of dissonance working against me simply existing in a believable space.
This is good argument!
Examples we were using in this topic dont quite apply, i would dare to say (sheating weaspons on back can quite be abused in any way i would imagine ... and i dont believe that any engine would concider teleporting to cage as good tactical choice, since you either dont have line of sight to anyone bcs cage is in your way, or everyone have clear line of sight on you without any chance to run
).
But still, its a good argument for immersion problems in general.
I totally understand that argument "just dont do it" cant be applied for situations where even if you choose not to do something, NPCs wont. :-/
