no, when u get ambushed in the begging. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> and u can go to the orc camp first and see them there. if u go early, u see the old hag (not iona, or josephina, the other one) and she talks to that chief orc, Ba'lzok or somethin'.