Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General So what now?

And I think you hit the nail on the head as to why Swen released that interview. It's like he was indirectly saying, "Read between the lines players. The BOX was SO much work. Therefore, stop even remotely expecting anything even remotely complicated to implement."

In other words, Day/Night, 5e rules, multiclassing, maybe even every race as originally promised, reworking camps or resting, random encounters, a revamp on item management, any additional UI changes, reactions overhaul, and any toilet chain movement overhaul is HIGHLY unlikely going to be implemented.

You're wasting your time and have wasted your time since day 1 because something as small as the much needed box has sucked us dry. At this point, just be happy if we finish the game before we release it.

i really hope that you are wrong. IF swen and larian DID really spent a whole lot of resources and effort in just permutations and branching choices, then i'll be deeply saddened that they have took the wrong direction with a dnd5e game. they should be focusing on making a dungeons & dragons game instead of chasing the witcher dream. again i hope you and i are wrong. also swen does look incredibly stressed in the video. this is not going to be good if indeed the box is wrecking baldur's gate 3.

This has been my expectation for a long time, unfortunately.

Some of those things could be changed without any impact to the permutation system. Changes to rules, reactions or the UI don’t need mocap, SFX, VFX or all the rest involved in making new scenes.

It’s too early for despair. Though if patch 8 doesn’t change the reaction system at all, I might join you then.

Lot of assumptions and pessimism, no?

Does anyone here have any special insight into Larian's resources? Anyone seen the bank account numbers? Anyone know how many work hours have been devoted to this versus that? Anyone aware of what the developer version of the game currently looks like versus the version we see in early access?

Heck, does anyone here even know the date Patch 8 will be released and what will be in the patch?

This is going to be my first post here, although I watched the discussions for some time at this point but always struggled to actually join. Anyway...

Personally, I take Swen's interview as a sign to temper some expectations as BG3 won't end up perfect; they've clearly underestimated some things, they have much more people working on the game than they had on DOS2 (as far as I understand) and that can easily result in mismanagement, big or small. And this is fine, nothing ever came out perfect. I still think it's probably going to be great but at the same time still troubled at some points.

As someone who didn't actually play BG1/2 I feel like BG3 is under absolutely insane pressure when it comes to expectations - there's a big name attached to the game, then you have general D&D fans, then you have thier own Larian/DOS crowd, etc, and everyone wants it to be a good successor in their own way, most likely in a way that is incompatible to others'. But two dozen years passed since BG1&2, gaming changed a lot, Larian Studios are not early Bioware and they clearly have a specific vision on how they want to do things. And with all this they might as well just focus on their own vision (with adjustments to things that people seem to unanimously loathe) because they won't be able to cater to everyone anyway and they are probably too far in development to drastically change many of the systems or add more. This doesn't mean we don't need some basic systems like reactions to be worked into something better that we have right now though.

I remain VERY optimistic about the game and I LOVE their ambition and openness and honesty about things. I just wish they communicated more with the community but I'll take what I can get. I think BG3 will be *AWESOME*!!!!

I think that's a reasoned take on the situation. In addition, I thought Sven was simply being honest about the difficulties with trying to make a narrative this massive where you give players so much choice. It was kind of refreshing to hear "yea, i might have messed that up" from a dev. He's obviously taking a lot of the blame on himself with that, and I have respect for that.

also, I don't think people are arguing seriously about a "box" as someone else mentioned, I thought it was obvious we were discussing the difficulties when you try to give players unlimited choices, and how Sven realized this as well.

Let me be clear. The game is still awesome. I'm just done expecting anything else from it. If the box delayed production so much, and it really didn't need to...

But let's put things in perspective. If Kingmaker was designed as well as BG3 you would be able to:

1. Fight the Stag Lord and kill him and become a baron(ess)
2. Sneak in and chat with him and join him to fight against the Sword Lord's
3. Join Tartuccio and work with him to acquire the relic and take over
4. Possibly convince the Stag Lord to surrender peacefully.

And who knows what else. BG3 has SO many ways it could play out. That makes it superior to so many other RPGs.

+1

I second that. For me, the interview was not surrender or admission of blame or whatever some people interpreted it as, it was just a Dungeon Master ranting about his crazy elaborate campaign ideas. I loved it.

This isn't about whether or not reactivity is good or not, it's good, it's about efficient action. You don't need to create a complex system of pulleys and levers to make a MacGuffin work.
And considering how often this comes up in D&D/RPG adventure design, it's kind of strange to see it taken this far in BG:3

Ok. Let me also clarify. Whether he MEANT it as a lighthearted rant or not, the point I'm making is that the interview makes it quite plain that BG3 has been a huge challenge and a lot of work just to fix one little mistake.

Therefore, don't expect them to make major changes of any kind to the game. If that one little thing causes that much work, so you think they're going to even remotely take any other chances?

So, major element changes like Day/Night... Even party of 6 could break the game... RTWP? Heck no. Too much probability of crashing the system. Any kind of legit resting system beyond maybe limiting food more? Doubt they'll try.

In other words, EA suggestions should be brought WAY down.

Since I generally consider you among the "reasonable ones", I'll take the time to clarify my viewpoint.

I've said more than once that I'm at very least confident that even in the worst case scenario BG3 will turn out to be overall a very competent and enjoyable game for the most part, if not an instant classic as it could be.

But this doesn't make the occasional users that try their best to be gratuitously catty and passive-aggressive toward ANY criticism voiced by others a single bit less annoying.

We don't need the "damage control patrol" policing the tone and scolding the "negativity" every time someone has some disappointment to express.
And we shouldn't feel pressured to put a half dozens asterisks and caveats near every single expression of criticism just to make it more palatable.

I will keep criticizing things I don't like about the (current?) state of the game and I will reserve for myself the right to not having to list "the things that the game also does well" every time just to sugarcoat the message.
Which doesn't mean "I hate everything" about the game. Otherwise I would have started ignoring it almost two years ago.

Thank you, Tuco. My thoughts exactly.

To me, the first major blow to us was Patch 7. I had more hope before they implemented the Barbarian class. Since EA began we've been talking about the idiot Shove mechanics that are utterly ridiculous. They're as bad or worse than height advantage. And what did they do? Created throw so players could yeet enemies and anything more than 30 feet, and they laughed about it. The PFH was like a mockery for players looking for a more serious gameplay, as if they were saying, "screw all of you. We don't care about making a serious RPG. We want meme material.". They even slapped us in the face by ridiculously short resting in a spider den while the spiders were patrolling the area for them as if saying, "We're ignoring your suggestions about having a better resting system."

Now, after Swen's latest interview, it's like another hard slap in the face, so yeah. I'm a bit ticked by it. Sure, he admits it's a mistake and such, but dang it's frustrating. It does NOT inspire me to continue bothering with EA. Quite the opposite.

This has definitely NOT been a good first EA experience, and it will certainly be my last. I first posted on Steam, but that community is far worse than this forum. Geez! I remember saying something about wanting them to fix the hag fight because it was too hard, and people bit my head off and told me to just get gud. But it was very frustrating when I would have half my party die before I could even act once unless I cast Protection BEFORE I even triggered the dialogue with the hag.

And here? Well, arguing with people over every minor suggestion I make has not been fun. And that's all EA has been. People accusing other people of just complaining all the time whenever they make a suggestion or attacking one another or arguing over everything... And for what?

"Oops. We spent a TON of time trying to make people take SH but still have a choice even though they really didn't."

Ugh!

But yes. I still think it'll be a great game and I still think even if they don't change anything...blah blah blah... It'll be a great game... Blah, blah, blah...

I'm not convinced of this at all, and will need to wait until I get to see the whole game. I base this on what I read being discussed here and on other forums, and on watching youtube videos and streams of people playing the game.

I feel very strongly that BG3 likes to talk the talk about giving players all these options. But I don't buy that it walks the walk. I see only what amount to superficial or fake or lame or railroad-y "options" for players that are not *real* options. There's always only one option that is the real option, the one you are supposed to pick, and then other possible ways of doing things that are not even close to being equivalent to the main option.

While tying a plot item to a companion that a player can basically interact however they want was probably a bad idea, it is admirable to see Larian working so hard to roll with player decisions like it's a D&D campaign. It's probably one of the toughest tasks in CRPG design, and I'm excited to see if they can pull it off.

For me - verisimilitude via player freedom/world interaction is pretty huge. Which is why I've always loved Fallout New Vegas more than Fallout 3 (freedom to kill anyone vs. random immortal NPCs). And also why I haven't completely forgiven BG2 for prologue Imoen and Arkanis Gath.

Now, with that said, Macguffins are pretty common in CRPGs, and it's basically accepted that a lot of games simply forces you to acquire it to progress (i.e Bloodlines with the Sarcophagus, a certain portal key for Planescape, and even the Platinum Chip in F:NV). So Larian's decision to try to "organically" give this to you as opposed to just make an eventual mandatory quest of "get the box" is very interesting to me.

Never thought you did. Just keep doing what you do. There are very many things I am not happy with either, I just occationally feel the need to let some air of positivity in, while remaining sceptical about the end product. They have clearly made some strange judgment calls, and the game is likely not going to be the dream game I originally envisioned, but I do believe I will love it. Possibly a lot! =)

Patch 8 will release june 15th at 7pm GMT. It will contain the bard class with a few subclasses. Because the current reaction system would be a huge nerf to Bardic Inspiration, reactions will see some kind of change.

Then we’ll all try patch 8 and come back here to critique, argue, nitpick, and generally have a good time.

So I have said and so it shall be.