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veteran
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veteran
Joined: May 2019
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I thought this was common knowledge. I swear I've seen this topic come up on multiple forums. Sven owns 62% of the company. His wife owns 8%, and then Tencent owns 30%.
IIRC, him and his wife used to own 100% and funded his company via loans, but after that almost bankrupted Larian during the making of DOS (since they require constant repayment) I think he probably thought Equity funding was the way to go. For the majority of "companies" that have staff and need a steady cashflow, you're either funding yourself via Equity (i.e. Venture Capital or a stake like this from Tencent), or you're taking on loans. Both ways have cost.
I never thought it was a huge deal myself. Owning 51% of a company is essentially the same as owning 100% from a control standpoint. The unfortunate truth is most of the funding/capital available comes from pretty sketch sources. Even loans come from banks who are basically sketchy AF (especially if you think about who's money they tend to manage).
It's exceeding rare for a proper indie gaming "studios" (i.e. with staff and salaries that you have to pay) to be 100% owned. That really only works when you're 1 person with savings, working from home. Once you have a staff before you've even sold one game, the money's gotta come from somewhere.
For example, Owlcat is an "indie studio", but it's also a full subsidiary (i.e. owner has less than 50%) - previously it belonged to My.Games / VK.com (Russian social media megacorp). Now it is a subsidiary to GEM Capital a private equity / venture capital based in Cyprus. This misses the point some of us are making. I'm totally fine with everything you say here. I understand how business works, and am completely fine with companies bringing in investors. In fact, that's exactly how they ought to operate. The issue here is not that some outside investor owns 30% of Larian. The issue here is that investor is Tencent. It is specifically Tencent with whom I have a grave problem.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
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I'm also mildly concerned about how Tencent managed this, and not like, anyone else being in on it. Did someone at Larian just personally invite them in?
Can Larian still call themselves indie anymore? It's all so weird. I mean, this is literally the purpose of the entire investment banking industry. They act as intermediary between companies and potential investors, and probably helped Larian pitch and find various investors when they decided they wanted to switch from debt funding to equity funding. Of all the various investors the bank approached for Larian, Tencent likely gave them the best valuation/deal.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
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This misses the point some of us are making. I'm totally fine with everything you say here. I understand how business works, and am completely fine with companies bringing in investors. In fact, that's exactly how they ought to operate.
The issue here is not that some outside investor owns 30% of Larian. The issue here is that investor is Tencent. It is specifically Tencent with whom I have a grave problem. I'm not the biggest fan of Tencent or the Chinese Government myself, but for me, as long as that controlling stake stays at 30% and Swen remains at 51%+, it really is at the end of the day just a source of funding. This isn't a Riot Games situation where Tencent actually owns 100% and thus can dictate and impact business decisions. If you want to look at who owns what and judge base on where funding is coming from, that can be an endless rabbit hole. If it makes you feel any better, the largest shareholder of Tencent is actually Nasper, a Dutch/South African company at 31% (no one has a larger share). The original founders around 8.4 and 3.5% respectively. Because the company is based in China and given their system there, the Chinese government obviously can exert a lot of control over how the company operates (i.e. they recently tanked Tencent's stock due to that whole thing about limiting gaming hours). That's where the most troubling sway comes from IMO. The truth is, a tiny company like Larian is a rounding error for a company like Tencent. The stake is probably more likely Tencent not wanting to hold onto too much cash and wanting to put into proper diversified securities with decent ROI instead. Almost all company try not to hoard too much cash because you are losing tons of money letting it sit there when it could have been invested.
Last edited by Topgoon; 09/06/22 09:56 PM.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Dec 2020
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it really is at the end of the day just a source of funding. ![[Linked Image from media0.giphy.com]](https://media0.giphy.com/media/VcWnY3R6YWVtC/giphy.gif)
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2021
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Ya but what is their view on shove as a bonus action?
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2020
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Ya but what is their view on shove as a bonus action? Hahaha Thank you for a good laugh.
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member
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member
Joined: Jul 2021
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The issue here is not that some outside investor owns 30% of Larian. The issue here is that investor is Tencent. It is specifically Tencent with whom I have a grave problem. Yes, this is the most concerning part of the rumor. It does not matter if law-abiding investors own a minority stake of the studio. But doing business with any communist-controlled company, especially in a regime with aggressive censorship and intellectual property theft policies, is not consistent with the image that Larian has crafted about themselves.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Mar 2013
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If this is accurate it would leave a very bad impression with me. Tencent is not just a Chinese company. It is a Chinese *government* owned and controlled company. I want nothing to do with anything Tencent-related. It's a "government" owned controlled company? where you got that from or the source is "trust me bro"?. anyway i don't care much about politics and shouldn't bring it into gaming too. as long larian deliver me a fun awesome game i care nothing more.
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member
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member
Joined: Jul 2021
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If this is accurate it would leave a very bad impression with me. Tencent is not just a Chinese company. It is a Chinese *government* owned and controlled company. I want nothing to do with anything Tencent-related. It's a "government" owned controlled company? where you got that from or the source is "trust me bro"?. anyway i don't care much about politics and shouldn't bring it into gaming too. as long larian deliver me a fun awesome game i care nothing more. The CCP has unlimited authority over every business in mainland China. It does not "control" daily operations, but it steals all IP from them, censors any content it does not like, and can imprison executives or interfere in financing, advertising, production, labor, or anything else it wants to. If you don't know this, educate yourself about the world.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Mar 2013
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If this is accurate it would leave a very bad impression with me. Tencent is not just a Chinese company. It is a Chinese *government* owned and controlled company. I want nothing to do with anything Tencent-related. It's a "government" owned controlled company? where you got that from or the source is "trust me bro"?. anyway i don't care much about politics and shouldn't bring it into gaming too. as long larian deliver me a fun awesome game i care nothing more. The CCP has unlimited authority over every business in mainland China. It does not "control" daily operations, but it steals all IP from them, censors any content it does not like, and can imprison executives or interfere in financing, advertising, production, labor, or anything else it wants to. If you don't know this, educate yourself about the world. i'm more educated myself about the world thank you. maybe you should too and not buy into propaganda easily. again i'm not interested in discussing politics here but in the game itself. regardless of any publisher i hope we have some news soon about bg3.
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member
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member
Joined: Jul 2021
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i'm more educated myself about the world thank you. maybe you should too and not buy into propaganda easily. again i'm not interested in discussing politics here but in the game itself. regardless of any publisher i hope we have some news soon about bg3. You're clearly not educated if you think facts about communism are "propaganda." Try reading books.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Sep 2017
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No politics please, Machinus. And your general attitude needs to calm down a bit. A big bit.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Mar 2020
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westerners and sinophobia, name a better duo...
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Dec 2020
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No politics please, Machinus. And your general attitude needs to calm down a bit. A big bit. Is it possible to maybe remove offending/baiting comments without nuking the whole thread? Such as comments - implying that all Westerners are sinophobes - arguing about Communism I don't think it's fair to close down conversation about something related to the game because of couple of bad faith posters are either arguing and or baiting
Last edited by Boblawblah; 10/06/22 01:59 PM.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Jul 2014
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westerners and sinophobia, name a better duo... "Internet discussions and dumb generalizations" comes to mind.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: May 2019
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Yup, I'm not going to take the strawman bait of "any criticism of China = sinophobia." That's just straightup B.S.
My concern is Tencent attempting to exert content censorship and/or manipulation. Recently, we had the example of Tencent having a minority financial stake in Paramount's new Top Gun movie. They used that stake to demand, based on their government's demands, that Paramount remove the flags of Japan and Taiwan from Maverick's iconic flight jacket. Initially, Paramount caved and agreed to the censorship. But word leaked out and there was a huge public backlash. Then Paramount reversed itself and rejected Tencent's demands. So Tencent withdrew its financial investment in the movie.
In this instance, eventually, things worked out exactly as they should have. But this sort of thing worries me greatly.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Feb 2021
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member
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member
Joined: Jul 2021
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Yup, I'm not going to take the strawman bait of "any criticism of China = sinophobia." That's just straightup B.S. "Sinophobia" (which is not a real thing) and propaganda, don't forget.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2021
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"Sinophobia" (which is not a real thing) Prejudice against Chinese people is very real. If you wish to argue (for or against) the presence and/or extent of such prejudice in a given context, well, that is another matter altogether, but to categorically deny it exists at all is flat-out stupid. But this sort of thing worries me greatly. That said, yes, there are cultural differences which tend to result in alterations or even blatant censorship in a foreign work if a Chinese company fronts enough capital towards such an endeavor. Good luck securing Chinese investment for a film with a heroic/main character that happens to be homosexual/bisexual.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Oct 2021
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Good luck securing Chinese investment for a film with a heroic/main character that happens to be homosexual/bisexual. Speaking of, this is clearly present in BG3. So, to date, can anyone say there's been pressure to remove such elements?
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