Originally Posted by Elebhra
I agree with most of your points, except:

I dislike floating ability scores for all races. I enjoy that per PHB races have their identities. Your example of Drow being weaker than High Elf doesn't really work. Drows get bigger range on their Darkvision and additionally Faerie Fire/lr at lvl 3. There are classes/builds that will benefit from those a lot more than a single cantrip.

Additionally both Variant Human and Hexblade are over-adjustments on weaknesses of base Human and Pact of the Blade respectively. I would rather see Larian improving Pact of the Blade a bit and give humans something that is not as game-changing as an early feat.
I said Half Drow...

Originally Posted by Elebhra
Originally Posted by Stabbey
By definition, you would not have to use floating ability scores. They would start out as the default, and you could choose to swap them, or leave the ASI's where they were. It would not affect you, but it would allow for say, a Halfling Wizard to exist without being mechanically penalized. That would allow more players to play how they want while not affecting players who wanted to keep the default.

Is a halfling wizard actually penalized though?

Lucky trait is amazing. It's worse than +1 to attack rolls, but not by much. Not to mention ability, saving throw checks, concentration. And you should have either +1 to dex or +1 to con compared to high elves or humans.

You lose 1 DC on your spells that's for sure, but your constitution score should be higher so concentration benefits.

And most importantly in 5e you can build your halfling wizard around the notion that you have lower intelligence to an extent that was not possible in previous editions. The amount of excellent spells that don't care about your int is astounding. And if you do focus on those spells a dwarf (due to proficiencies) or halfing are better choices than +int races.

Racial ability scores breed creativity while floating stat bonuses discourage it.
This is purely conjecture and it does not discourage creativity, it penalizes it. If I want to play a Tiefling Druid for the extra cantrip and spells, I'm penalized with my stat spread. Essentially I shot myself in the arm but was given a cool glove; what good is the glove if my arm has a bullet in it? It's a character that has spells for more options in gameplay, but will literally always be worse than another race/class combination. Same applies to Dragonborn when we see them, I got a cool breath weapon and resistance, but my spell rolls and save DC sucks compared to other options. If you're only option to point out the flaw of the above statement is to criticize the one specific example given, you don't have an argument, you have conjecture. We're talking about the concept in principle, not the character example provided.

Clearly we would also benefit from another option here for people that don't want floating scores. All I was saying is it will 200% be modded in within a month of full release. In fact, there's a patch 7 mod for it right now. So how about instead of everyone gets free score placements, when you press New Game you are given a set of options with rules you can pick. You know, like a real D&D game, where other people aren't told they're wrong for liking their game in certain ways.

Game Difficulty
Maximum Party Size
Floating Ability Scores on/off
And maybe other options I haven't thought of.
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by Belyavor
every character that as shield proficiency but will mostly be using bows as a free +2 AC permanently because it is free to switch what you are wielding in your hands.
Im sorry to break it to you, but this is even worse ... (i just checked)

Actualy every character that have shield proficiency and have Shield equipped simply HAVE +2AC permanently ... since the game is counting your shield even if you are wielding Bow ... so, basicaly, you dont even need to switch back to meele weapons (but you loose AOO if you will hold your Bow).

In some way it makes sense tho, AC is just number showing how much armor your character have ... and if you put your shield on your back, instead holding it in front of you ... the "amount of armor" surrounding your body remain unchanged. laugh
You just switched better protection for your back over better protection for your front ... wich is something DnD dont concider at all. laugh

It's not shield in front VS shield in back... it's shield in hands VS shield in back. Try Mount and Blade if you don't understand why it really matter.
At best they could say +1 AC always and an additionnal +2 if you hold it in your hands... but I'm not sure it would add anything to the game.

On top of that AC is not a number showing how efficient your armor is. Dexterity also increase your AC.
I didn't realize it was actually that bad even after all these characters...Shields are clearly broken at a fundamental level. There is also no discussion for weather or not a shield on your back should give a +2 to AC because shields, as a concept, are meant to be between you and an enemy and be actively used to ward off incoming attacks. Providing protection because it sits on your back is not even an argument because that essentially implies that someone attacking from behind you just aimed as if you didn't have a shield. Enemies don't aim for your shield, it is the wielders actively moving the shield that provides the protection, otherwise proficiency in shields would not be required.
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Very good suggestions and feedback ...
Just two notes:

Originally Posted by Belyavor
Class progression should be visible. When choosing a class you should be able to click a button and see a simple class progression chart, such as spell slots and basic features to at least level 3, ideally level 5. Leave subclass features out of it except when actually choosing subclasses to prevent giving the player too much information. This would mean Clerics, Warlocks, and Sorcerers would be the only ones who can see their subclass roadmap at character creation, the rest have to wait until they can select a subclass. Subclass information could also be passable as a summary of what the choice is meant to mean. Not everyone who plays this game will have intimate knowledge of 5e classes and subclasses, but also some classes got changed because they do not translate well into a CRPG, such as the ranger. It would be very good to know what kind of character we are committing to before we locked in our choices.
Disagree ... if we should get some character progression, it should provide as much information as possible ...
There is no reason to limit it only to level 5 and provide only some subclass informations ...

In my honest opinion the best case scenario would be that if we open Class Progression we will see this:
(Up to max level in game.)
[Linked Image from pm1.narvii.com]

And every single feature will be expandable providing detailed tooltips ...
While if there is more than one option (like figting styles, sublcasses, etc.) it would instead reveal just list that would also have every single option expandable opening another tooltip with detailed tooltips and stuff.

Maybe level 5 is too low of a level point, but there is a such thing as loading too much information onto a player at once. My only concern with going above a certain level in character creation is just that, giving new players and people unfamiliar with 5e classes too much information at once. Think about it, that's 12 classes on full release, and people are speculating the level cap will be 14, so you would have 168 levels worth of information, and that is excluding subclass unique features from the classes that get their subclasses at level 1, all in character creation. This is why I personally prefer a class summary, then features up to level 5. Level 5 lets you know if you are getting level 3 spells, an extra attack, or a utility feature like the Bard/Rogue, which gives you a pretty good idea of how the class will be played throughout the game. At least, that's my opinion. I've tried to get some people into D&D just for them to turn away because it was a lot of imformation to take on at once and the best way to get into 5e is to either spend hours reading, watching videos, or have a DM friend who will help you roll a starter character after asking you what you want to do in the game.

EDIT: I'd like to add, Racial progression for the races that get spells and other features later should also be listed. I'd like to know at a glance what spells my Tiefling will get, etc.

Last edited by Belyavor; 11/06/22 08:19 PM.