Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Short Rest Poll

@JandK

Same!

For someone that's not bother by the lack of credibility of the area, it probably is.

I agree with all of this.

So, let's look at a typical playthrough with this "smaller areas with transitions":

Load into a map, do x, walk for 2 or 3 minutes, area transition. Load in, do y, walk for 2 or 3 minutes, area transition. Rinse and repeat.

I'm not interested. It's sort of funny to think about though. So, I've been playing Fallout 4 quite a bit recently. I only have about 20 or so mods running, but after about an hour or so of play time, going from an inside area to an outside area through a door can take anywhere from 2 to, and I've actually had this happen, 5 minutes. I'm left feeling grateful that I'm running it on an SSD, because if not, those times could be "get dressed, get on the bike, ride 40 miles to go to the store that's 5 blocks away, get some sandwich stuff, come home, make a sandwich and maybe the game will be loaded from a single transition". I spent about 8 minutes on an elevator that led to an outside area once, and once, I had to reload an earlier save, because it was over 10 minutes loading, this on an SSD... No thanks.

Probably the closest comparison I can think of is NWN1 campaign - just erase transitions between different bits of the map. Outside D:OSs of course, that used the same structure (and narratively suffered from many of the same issues. Once again the map consists of multiple, separate zones with little thought put how characters in zone A would react to proximity of zone B. Shockingly, BG3 is not even that bad, compared to what we had in D:OS2.

Now you're just being ridiculous. The initial conversation you have with Shadowheart is longer than 2 to 3 minutes. What we're suggesting is that the massive EA map could be broken into a few smaller maps so that there are natural transitions where they make sense.

So, one area would be the entire Beach and crypt including the wreckage of the ship in the area where you meet most of your companions. That is more than a few minutes of gameplay even if skip all of the cutscenes.

As you're heading towards the Grove, there is a transition so that the Grove area is then loaded. The entire Grove area all the way up to the river heading towards the village would be another separate map area. You can't tell me that you can do all of the grove in 2 to 3 minutes. Again, even if you skip all the dialogue, that's a sizable map location.

And, you may not even need a loading screen. A simple blackout for a few seconds while the game transitions to the new area is all you need. This would be just like when you are entering the Dank Crypt. There's no major loading scene when you go through the door into the Crypt. It's a blackout transition as the new area is loaded. Having smaller maps would speed up how long it takes for each area to load, so it wouldn't be that big of a deal.

This would then allow for a better resting mechanic. If all the map locations were smaller, they could create it so that you can't long rest until you reach the area exit. Thus, it would make more sense from an RPG perspective that you would have to complete an entire area before being allowed to end the day. This would then force you to use your short rest instead of long rest between encounters.

But what if my characters do really badly during certain fights and I can't continue unless I long rest? What's to stop me from going back to a previous area exit so that I can just long rest and return?

Respawn. If you leave the area and spend an entire rest of the day recovering, your enemies should replenish the area. Maybe they wouldn't have as many on the next day to face, but a respawning of enemies resets the game map so that it remains challenging. To be no different from an old school video game where you have to try to meet an entire level in one city or you have to start over on that level from the beginning. But again, maybe subsequent attempts are easier than the initial, or something of that nature.

But this is all pointless talk anyway. It's not really like they're going to do this. They'd have to revamp encounters to make this work, and they're not going to do it. At this point the game is probably what it is, and they're not likely going to make any changes other than minor stupid ones. So it doesn't really matter.

At this point, I don't care if they revamp the map or the resting system. I just kind of hope they at least revamp short rest. As it currently is, I find myself forcing myself to use them because I think they're just so pointless and stupid. There really is no reason to short rest. I get a ton of potions, I can use Arcane recovery at any time, and the only things that get reset are special abilities and warlock spell slots. In this game, warlocks are such a baby class that I hardly even play them. What's the point when the other classes are so much better. Wizards get a ton more spouse lots, and I can long rest whenever I want to replenish them.

Respawning enemies is probably the worst idea I've heard.
After I have fought enemies once and cleaned the area, I have no desire to do it again. It is annoying in every game I have played.
I don't care completely if the player could leave the area to rest, everyone plays as they please. Forcing you to clean an area in one rest is stupid.
Another thing, if you kill again enemy should drop exp and loot? If it's not even worse. Spending 3-5 minutes fighting with which you literally have nothing from it is annoying.
If you want to play like that, please do not force others to do it.

Lol. And I just threw that idea out there. I'm not trying to force anyone to play a certain way. Why does everyone get so defensive like that? And it's not like it matters. Like I said, they're not going to change anything like this. And also like I said, I really just want them to make the short rest mechanic a little bit more meaningful. Something besides a button push quick heal. I can use the endless potions I get to do that. It's practically useless as is.

Except that I never said how long doing x or y would take? The point was that, depending on how well optimized this is going to be on release, you could wind up with a good chunk of your playtime in a loading screen. No thanks.

Whatever. Like I said, it doesn't matter anyway.

Again. And again. The point of this thread is that Long rest is promoted. Short rest is limited and an afterthought. Encounters are designed in a way where it is basically expected that you will long rest before each fight. So, your party essentially sleeps for 8 hours, wakes up, adventures for a very short time, and calls it a day. Especially in the Underdark, this is very true.

This is stupid. It makes no sense from a Roleplaying game perspective. You are supposed to adventure for a long time and rest only when needed.

It's like playing Descent into Avernus and after getting the quest to go take out the Dead Three Cult, you call it a day. Then you journey to the hideout, fight the guards at the entrance and call it a day. You enter and fight a group of cultists, and call it a day.

The whole cult lair is meant to be one fluid sequence. You're supposed to do it all in one stint, and you do so by using short rests, potions and other items, etc. You don't long rest between fights.

If players feel that they should or need to long rest between just about every encounter, that's bad campaign design. Sure. You might say, "But I don't feel that way. I can go forever," but others don't. They feel that the adventure and NPCs are always pushing for frequent long rests instead of pushing for short.

What I really want is:

1. Untie dialogue from long rest - except those that make sense like Shadowheart's "Are you sure this is a good idea" dialogue.
2. Stop having characters say, "I'm tired. Better call it a day.". I don't mind said dialogue as long as I've lost like half the total party HP and used a bunch of spell slots. Then it makes sense.
3. Unlimit short rest so I can do it as much as I want, but limit it via Hit Dice so that it at least has some limit to it that encourages strategy.
4. Limit long rest in some fashion besides food because you get endless amounts of it and even if you didn't you could buy it. But heck, even if you kept the food limit but made food spoil or limit how much you find, that would at least be better. It would encourage short resting more. Just something to discourage long rest to add more value to short.
5. Have at least the burning building stop burning after you encounter it so it seems like time does actually pass, and ANYTHING you can do to add to time would be awesome. Have people stop having the same bloody convos every dang day. SOMEthing to make long resting more impactful to the world.

@RagnarokCzD I'd just like to say @GM4Him wasn't wrong with the comment on the death scene and Ettercaps. I haven't played in a few patches now, but at first and for a few patches at least, it did use to say Ettercaps. I spent a lot of time searching that area when the EA went live cause I thought there had to be an entrance to the Matriarch's lair hidden nearby somewhere.

Lets put aside for a second that the edges of areas could be elsewhere than you want them ...

Question is how would they do that?
I mean even if there would be some transition between Ship Wreckage and the Grove, you can still SEE both from the outpost.
That would be a problem ... if the game would really acnowledge how much time you were traveled.


Do you know why you get "only a few seconds blackout"?
Its bcs the area you are getting to is allready loaded ... so to achieve the same you would need somehow this game to load several separated maps at once. O_o

Chubblot explains it quite well in this video:


Exactly ... and that is why it is so horrible idea.
Thank Gods, Larian dont want to "force" players to anything ... so this will most likely never happen. :3

Respawn.
Lets see: You are cleaning an area ... you are using your spellslots, consumables, shits as usualy ... now you get the feeling that you are too beaten to continue, so you go back and rest ... enemies respawn ...
You are cleaning an area ... you are using your spellslots, consumables, shits as usualy ... now you get the feeling that you are too beaten to continue, so you go back and rest ... enemies respawn ...
You are cleaning an area ... you are using your spellslots, consumables, shits as usualy ... now you get the feeling that you are too beaten to continue, so you go back and rest ... enemies respawn ...
You are cleaning an area ... you are using your spellslots, consumables, shits as usualy ... now you get the feeling that you are too beaten to continue, so you go back and rest ... enemies respawn ...
You are cleaning an area ... you are using your spellslots, consumables, shits as usualy ... now you get the feeling that you are too beaten to continue, so you go back and rest ... enemies respawn ...

See the problem? Or should i coppy it few more times?

also ... lets see it from other perspective, that so called "immersion" ...


Next problem ...
Maybe you didnt noticed, but Larian is using a name for each and every companion instead of usual "Goblin 1", "Goblin 2" ... that allows eternal spawning.
As i allready explained in the past, there is no such thing as "random name generator" ... they all are just picking names from really big library and mash them together ... less sophisticated generators have full names, usual generators have names and surnames separated, very sophisticated generators are mashing together consonants ... but they still take things from LIMITED list ... what does it means?
Sooner or later (probably sooner, when we count in their look and not just name) exatly the same goblin you just killed is here again.

Isnt that immersion breaking? It seems so to me.


Next problem ...
I use Blighted Willage as example ...
There is patrol on Windmill, Blacksmith house, School house, Apothecary and in the Barn ...
I get there, fight the Goblins at Blacksmith, Apothecary and the Barn ...
I beat them all, steal their riches and stuff ... i leave School and Windmill ... i get the feeling that im too beaten to continue ...
I go rest ... so they respawn ...
And now one of two things can happen:
1) Their loot (and not just weapons, but also things in crates and lockboxes) respawned aswell ... meaning i basicaly just created infinite XP and infinite Gold cheat in my game.
2) Their loot DIDNT respawn aswell ... meaning i have no reason to go back to those places i allready looted ... meaning i simply can rest after every single encounter without any restriction, so NOTHING CHANGED from curent state.

Also, just side note ... if i clean the group around Windmill ... and i rescue the Gnome ... then i go rest ... why will those Goblins be gathered around Windmill when they respawn? Will i rescue the Gnome 7 times per week?


I could probably find some more, but this should help you ge the idea why respawning in such game is so bad.


That would be fun ... reducing number of enemies by 1 with every rest until one sad allone goblin will patrol the whole area.
Pure gold. xD

---

I know, that is why i said it "was a misstake" ...

You know in the past i had this argument with GM about Shadowheart and one of arguments was that she have certain amount of Black Gems in her gear (5 was the number i think) ... i posted her screenshot and marked every single one of them (they was 2) ... and then i was told that this image is outdated and anything that was changed by Larian is no longer relevant ...
So i simply applied the same logic here ... Larian changed this, so any mentions on Ettercaps are no longer relevant.

So you allready said in the past ... several times ... countless times even.
Isnt it about time to also tell us how did you get that impression, or will you just repeat the same sentence over and over and over hoping we will accept it without questions?

You know this is exactly the same bullshit as when people were complaining around here that this game "have combat created around gimmics" ...
If that would be true, it would be impossible (or nearly impossible) to complete it without them ... but that was never the case.

And so it isnt here ...
You can run through whole Spider Lair, Hag Lair (there you even have to, unless you leave), Goblin camp, Grymforge, etc. all of them within single ingame-day ... and if you cant, then im sorry you have to find out this way ... but honestly you do something wrong.


Need is relevant therm ... my party needs to rest after long and exhausting traveling ... its called immersion. :P
If your not, good for you ... or maybe bad in this circumstances.

You know i knew people like you, when i played WoW on Roleplay servers ...
People who never gets tired while runing across the map, or riding a horse for few hours straight ... bcs there is no exhaustion bar in the game.
People who never drinks with their martial classes ... bcs they dont use mana anyway.
People who see no problem to talk with their friends on fire how they "again" decapitated some strong enemy.

You are so freaking focused on game mechanics you seem to forget that the whole point of roleplaying is to play a role.

I mean ... sure, be my guest, play however the f**k you want ...
Just, since i dont find you qualified to decide what "makes sense" from roleplay perspective ... dont mess with my games. :-/


What others exactly do you mean? Bcs, and dont get mad, but ... i dont see them around. O_o

Since i would like to ask them one thing ...
If you people feel like you should rest after every single encounter ... and you can ... what are you complaining about exactly?

Yeah and I'm absolutely not saying that everything is bad in BG3.

In exemple in my opinion the underdark is mostly fine.
If you remove all creatures it look like an entire area build as a whole rather than pieces of a puzzle (the story) glued together.

I really hope the rest of the game is gonna be less like the surface and more like the underdark. I guess it was easier for Larian to design the underdark because you can really explore it the way you want while there's a path to follow on the surface.

That said, in my opinion they could have made better choices for the surface both to limit the narrative issues and create a more coherent area.

@Ragnarok

Please calm down. It's just a game. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter if I say out here that I want them to rework the whole game. It doesn't matter if you say that you want them to change nothing. We can fuss and fight over this game for ten more years, and it still wouldn't change a thing. There's no need for all this.

At the end of the day, even if I suddenly agree with you, Larian might still change the mechanics and we'd both lose. Or even if you agree with me, they might not change a thing and we'd both lose. Whatever. It doesn't matter whether we agree or not. Neither of us has any power at all.

So please stop acting like I am some threat to you and your gameplay. I've said what I want. You've made it plain what you want. Let's just leave it at that.

I see you refuse to answer even single question ... as usualy.
Instead you tend to personal attacks, as usualy. -_-

The complaint is that perhaps some of the encounters should be tweaked in difficulty so that they consume fewer resources, so that fewer players feel like they need to do a long rest after every one.



Nothing about GM4Him's response could possibly be considered - by anyone who was posting in good faith - as a personal attack.

I don't think this would fix anything. While some encounters should certainly be made less tedious (40 goblins ugh), combat encounter difficulty isn't really the problem. It's that LRing is so easy and other game mechanics (LR cutscenes, all new dialogue, companions explicitly saying "i'm tired") encourage resting to such a high degree. Sure, if all encounters were trivial, I'd *want* to LR less often. But I'd most likely end up resting the exact same amount in order to not miss content. If anything, easier encounters would make the contradiction in BG3's LR-system-vs-content design even more apparent.

OMG, Rag. I don't have time to respond to every thing you pick apart... And what's the point? It won't make a difference. So I get to the place where I just give up and stop trying to reason with you.

And I do tend to think you are getting a bit hostile when you start saying things like "I mean ... sure, be my guest, play however the f**k you want ...
Just, since i dont find you qualified to decide what "makes sense" from roleplay perspective ... dont mess with my games. :-/"

Using the F-bomb typically implies you're getting a bit more upset, and "dont mess with my games" implies you're feeling attacked because it's quite defensive.

But whatever. Again. It doesn't matter.