Originally Posted by Belyavor
Originally Posted by Elebhra
1. As I stated previously, +5% matters in terms of average effectiveness more the lower the chance is (to a point of hoping for 20). If you are trying to hit an enemy with high AC and need a roll of 17-20, that +1 is massive in terms of DPR or duration of an effect. But in those cases it is ALWAYS better to look for another option other than rolling those odds. So in actual play if that 5% actually matters to a massive degree (like 30% increased effectiveness) it's more on the player for choosing wrong action or on the team not supporting a player to do it's job than on single stat point. Additionally 15 Int Wizard would most likely have higher CON or DEX due to his racial bonus, which will make surviving an opportunity attack after the 1/20 failed shocking grasp more likely. +1 in main stat without getting anything else is obviously good, but we are not talking about that. Choosing a race that doesn't allow you to get +3 modifier in your main stat does not mean that it doesn't have other strengths. And a player can use those strengths in new interesting way that go beyond what a usual exemplar of its class is capable of and thus minimizing the impact of lack of +1 to a stat point.

Yes we agree on this but the problem is there will always be the Absolute Best At X and what choosing stats does is narrow the gap. And again, it would be completely optional with an Opt In on New Game. Choosing optional stats just means the min-maxed is a different race/class combo than it is without, but people will still choose what they like with a smaller power gap, which is a good thing.

Does it really narrow the gap enough? There are some seriously good racial abilities that for some classes are incredibly powerful. There is a reason why giving Shield Dwarves medium armor proficiency that wizards, sorcerers salivate for is not game breaking. It's their racial stat bonus.


Originally Posted by Belyavor
Originally Posted by Elebhra
Do you really need floating stat points to make a nerdy barbarian dwarf? Just put as many point into intelligence as possible. Why the need to give yourself even more? Can you roleplay better with it? Half-orc with 10 strength will be considered weak, do you really need 8 for your character fantasy?

I find hard to believe that anyone who considers a role play a big factor needs floating stat point to create a unique character.

When I said Nerdy Barbarian, you said Dwarf, why does it have to be a dwarf? Because they get the Barbarian stats. And that is where the problem lies. Nobody is saying you can't build anything you want, we're saying we don't want to be harshly punished for picking a race/class combination we want. What if I don't want to play a low mental stat Barbarian but want to be a -1 charisma Barbarian Tiefling? I can't. I just want to play as a rude and vulgar tiefling that doesn't know how to talk to people and gets angry easily, well too bad, I literally just can't. So no, you don't need to change your racial ASI to play something viably, but you do need it to properly portray character personality and history. If you can't understand that I just have to assume you don't roleplay as much as you powerplay simply because it's such a basic concept to have the character you want to play have the stats you want to have, the only person saying it must be used to min-max is you. It doesn't have to be used to min max, it can, and is often, used to create a personality and projection of the characters history. I find it hard to believe someone doesn't think stats are important to roleplay, especially mental stats. A Wizard that is a teacher wouldn't have as much Wisdom as they would Charisma, because teaching takes Intelligence and Charisma. There are infinite character concepts out there and being able to customize stats expresses that even further.

Argument would work for any race, Dwarf or not. Why is being punished for being a High Elf Barbarian bad, but ok in case of Halflings? The inability to use heavy weapons is far more punishing for Barbarian than +1 to Strength. You can always find a roleplay reason to do something in the game or round the table that punishes you. Racial Stats are one of the least punishing aspects.

Tiefling with 10 Charisma can be obnoxious. That +2 Charisma is there to represent that power that his bloodline gives him. I would argue that a Tiefling with 8 Charisma wouldn't be a Tiefling at all. He might be vulgar, clumsy with words and angry all the time, the only difference would be that his fiendish (or other ancestry) let's him get away with it sometimes.

The most naturally intelligent half-orc shouldn't be as intelligent as the most intelligent high elf. It's how the race fantasy works. Races are not just about looks and making them so is bad for role play especially. Good roleplay always has and had some guiding rules.

Additionally only maximum available and minimum score is affected by floating bonuses. Nothing prevents you from putting points in Charisma as a teacher wizard, it's irrelevant. You don't need to be the most charismatic dwarf in Faerun to roleplay a teacher bacakground.