Originally Posted by Elebhra
Does it really narrow the gap enough? There are some seriously good racial abilities that for some classes are incredibly powerful. There is a reason why giving Shield Dwarves medium armor proficiency that wizards, sorcerers salivate for is not game breaking. It's their racial stat bonus.

How often does your wizard need armor? Are you always in melee with it? This example reeks of gameplay errors justifying a weird min-max choice. I've never even needed Mage armor on my wizards, let alone other forms of armor. You're so hung up on dwarves as if mage armor doesn't already exist and isn't already enough, it's just a level 1 spell slot. Just have a good frontliner and people won't get the chance to do much to the wizard so picking a dwarf for an armored wizard is actually not even that great of an option. Sorcerers already can go Draconic and get passive AC increase and more HP so armor is kinda not great there either. As someone who plays a lot of casters, I've never salivated for armor, it was always just kinda like alright but I don't get hit that much so whatever. I'd rather have extra spells from Tiefling or extra movement from wood elves or wood half elves, which you already don't need to have adjustable racial ASI to min-max around. Most combinations are already good, but some are outright bad and anti-synergistic, all floating ASI does is make the bad ones less bad. Half Orcs ability to not-die is not good on spellcasters because you shouldn't be getting hit in the first place, but really good on clerics, paladins, and other front liners. So if you want a wizard half orc, what do you get for it? Constitution? On the class that isn't getting hit much? Con is good, but if that's all I get, no thanks.

Originally Posted by Elebhra
Argument would work for any race, Dwarf or not. Why is being punished for being a High Elf Barbarian bad, but ok in case of Halflings? The inability to use heavy weapons is far more punishing for Barbarian than +1 to Strength. You can always find a roleplay reason to do something in the game or round the table that punishes you. Racial Stats are one of the least punishing aspects.

Because dual wielding handaxes has never been a good Barbarian strategy... Who cares if you don't have heavy weapons with dual wielding? less damage than a heavy weapon, but more AC with dual wielding feat. More accuracy without the GWM penalty and able to apply that rage bonus one additional time without needing to pick Berserker. Yeah, not carrying heavy weapons really isn't that big of a deal. It's just a different playstyle that is not "the best one" so your min-max attitude is showing again.

Originally Posted by Elebhra
Tiefling with 10 Charisma can be obnoxious. That +2 Charisma is there to represent that power that his bloodline gives him. I would argue that a Tiefling with 8 Charisma wouldn't be a Tiefling at all. He might be vulgar, clumsy with words and angry all the time, the only difference would be that his fiendish (or other ancestry) let's him get away with it sometimes.

I do not understand what this means. A tiefling with 8 charisma is just not a tiefling? I know that's not what you're trying to say, but that's kinda how it sounds from that phrasing.

Originally Posted by Elebhra
The most naturally intelligent half-orc shouldn't be as intelligent as the most intelligent high elf. It's how the race fantasy works. Races are not just about looks and making them so is bad for role play especially. Good roleplay always has and had some guiding rules.

So Half Orcs can't be as smart as a gome or elf? That's kinda messed up to say. A Half Orc raised by his Human father who was a wizard and taught him everything he knows about the weave should be smart, and without proper protein and workout regimens he also will not be as strong as other half orcs. Maybe in your fantasy races cannot change their self identity with practice and training or study, but in my fantasies, any race can be anything they damn well please and I refuse to see that as a problem. Not to mention being against customization options in a game where the very first thing you do is customize a character.

Originally Posted by Elebhra
Additionally only maximum available and minimum score is affected by floating bonuses. Nothing prevents you from putting points in Charisma as a teacher wizard, it's irrelevant. You don't need to be the most charismatic dwarf in Faerun to roleplay a teacher bacakground.
You don't need to but I want to because it makes sense to me and I would like that to be an option. Why is that so hard to understand?

Ok really, that last one was so profoundly dumb I had to go back on my word and comment, but obviously you're going to keep saying random things that actually either show you have no idea what I'm talking about, you can't not min-max when given the opportunity, you won't give up power for roleplay aspects but at the same time worry nobody will, think that someone else enjoying placing their own stats is a bad thing that will ruin your own fun and ideas of how the world should work, and constantly either contradicting yourself or somehow managing to prove my point even further.

All for an opt-in feature that people who will choose to opt into will download the already existing mod for anyway. My only point was it will be modded in an extremely large amount of games anyway, so when you hit new game, give it a yes or no checkbox as well as party size selection. Don't want to do it? Then just... don't do it. If you're only argument is "But I don't wanna do that" then you can just not do it, if your concern is ruining your view of the game, NPCs and companions will still have the same stats and so all you have to do is opt out, someone else opting in does not change how your game is played. If you can't help but min max a weird armored wizard then that's your business, if you will do that even though you want to play something else then you just need more self control to work on your attraction to power playing. I just want people to have that option on release so they can play the game how they want right away. It really is that simple. If you think people playing the game like this when you don't want to is for some reason is a bad thing, I have some grim news for you... They're going to do it anyway. So I guess we'll have fun our way regardless and you cannot stop us and we are not wrong for enjoying the game the way we like. Your entire argument boils down to "I don't enjoy that so you are factually wrong" and that's not at all how that works. I am not faulting you for enjoying it your way, but you are faulting me for enjoying it my way. If you want static racial bonuses that's fine, do it, but don't tell me I have to because that's what you like. That's not how the world works. Would you also fault me for running my 5e games with Tasha's optional rules? It's the same thing. Just don't join that table. Just don't opt in to that feature.

Last edited by Belyavor; 11/06/22 10:13 PM. Reason: Expanding